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Postby Dallas » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Imagine that! Who would've thunk? :lol: :lol:
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Postby garden variety » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:30 pm

C'mon bro! :lol: :lol:

You could have rubbed it in deeper and saltier than that :twisted: - like:

"What's all this about WE ARE NOT SAINTS, BUT THERE'S NO LAW AGAINST TRYING TO BE" stuff you were talking about."

Wow that CROW was delicious! I think there's still a couple feathers caught between my gritted teeth. :P :oops: :roll: :evil: :? :wink:
(just a teensy bit of emotions all over the place) :mrgreen:
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Postby Dallas » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:06 pm

Hey Paul... in case you missed it... "I understand!" :lol:

Wasn't rubbing any salt in the wounds! :wink:

You're not alone. It's happened to many. Most don't stay sober long enough to tell about it -- let alone to admit it.

I've got some tooth picks. (Let overs from my past and reserves for my future crows).

Holler if you want one! :lol:

Dallas
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Postby garden variety » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:43 pm

Dallas wrote:Hey Paul... in case you missed it... "I understand!" :lol:

Wasn't rubbing any salt in the wounds! :wink:


Naw. I didn't miss it. I know you weren't rubbing salt.

I guess I just looked at it sort of for the first time and I got disgusted with myself. I mean it is pretty lame to think it would really work. I mean we were actually working through steps - not a make-believe scenario here. If my "sober" head was any farther up my "sober" butt, I would have needed someone to tie a rope around my feet to keep me from disappearing! :shock: I also realize that the girl got hit with a pretty harsh comment - someone did say that to her. And I don't suppose it was something easy for her to defend.

"OK kids - now don't try this one at home!"
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Postby tim-one » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:47 pm

Funny how this seems to always happen ... I was at a big meeting last night. Usually about 75 old timers and about 40 newcomers. The topic wasn't about mixed sponsoring.

It was about:
1. Why avoid new romantic relations for the first year and
2. Why avoid relations within AA for a pretty long time.

Yep, those are a couple of the unwritten local "conscience" rules around here.

Somebody asked for a show of hands: "Raise your hand if you know anyone who has dated an AAer within the first year of either party's sobriety. Keep your hand up".

Lots of hands. I'd guess about half of the old timers knew somebody.

"Put both of your hands together if both parties relapsed during their relationship."

Every stinkin one of 'em.

I'm sure it can happen. It's just best to avoid it. And certainly not a good idea to seek it. If you're looking for it, you probly are LOOKING for trouble.

I figured I'd better pay attention to the old guys on this one. And my wife ... she would probly back them up on it. :P

Love,
Tim1
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Postby Dallas » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:25 pm

I don't know. Maybe it's better to dive right into a relationship -- mix it up -- shake it up -- get some pain going on -- to help you dive into the solution.

Quarter Backing on Tuesday morning is always a lot more insightful than playing on the field in Sunday's game. Should-a, would-a, could-a, is sometimes only valuable when our butt didn't get beat bad enough on the field... and we need some additional punishment to make us think we're doing something right.

What makes one think -- that God isn't right in the middle -- of the things that we start referring to as "mistakes" and "blunders"?

AWWW MAN!!! I could have done wonders with it if God had of just kept His nose out of it!

Dallas
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Postby tim-one » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:05 am

HAHAHAhahahaha ... MAN, God is NOSEY, ain't He?!
(Sorry, Lord. Just...don't...hurt me. 'K?) :lol:

Well, it's good to realize that we can just spread some warnings and love 'em when they come back. "How'd THAT work out for ya?"

Nuthin' like a little experience to screw up a good theory.

Nuthin' like a little AA knowledge to screw up a perfectly good drunk.

Actually, I know of a couple of couples who successfully hooked up in rehab and have stayed sober together. They're AA warriors. The proof is in the puddn. ONLY time will tell.

But they will tell you to get ready for comin' back, as they did a few times to get it right. They don't recommend the additional suffering.

Love,
Tim1
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Postby garden variety » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:44 pm

Dallas wrote:I don't know. Maybe it's better to dive right into a relationship -- mix it up -- shake it up -- get some pain going on -- to help you dive into the solution.


My thoughts exactly. Nice touch, Dallas!

That's why "unwritten rules" that become "general unwritten guidelines" and get handed down from sponsor to sponsee are pretty much watered down personal belief systems that ARE NOT a part of the program. Dallas, your "unwritten rules" about sex and sponsors wouldn't have meant anything to me unless I shared the experience. It's not part of the book, it's a part of your personal belief system, or "God as you understand Him."

It's so much better to have had the experience, and then see that you had a similar one that led to you developing your own concept of "right and wrong". That's the magic of AA - we IDENTIFY with each other's experience. It helps us to form a personal bond that keeps us stronger and sober.

Now regarding "relationships", that wasn't what I was talking about here. I was commenting on sexual attraction and/or "activities" between sponsor and sponsee. That didn't work for either the lady or me, but the relationship did work when the element of sponsorship was removed. No sobriety threatening issues, no related relapses.

Of course you probably already know the book says that sexual encounters and relationships ending in relapse "is only a half-truth". In other words, it's a "watered-down" rendition of another person's belief system under the guise of the AA program. Don't believe me? Go read page 70.

We are each entitled to have sexual relationships anytime we feel inclined, and our fellows are not supposed to be "sexual arbiters". How else can a person learn how to have a good relationship? A good sponsor won't throw those "unwritten rules" in the face of a sponsee. That's not a requirement. For me it's not right to deny a man his own painful or pleasurable experience that perhaps, as Dallas said, "God is in the middle" of it?

I had a new man ask me about relationships, and of course he was in the middle of an unhealthy one. I told him I don't have an opinion about relationships. He pressed me about that dam "1-year rule". I told him I'm not going to deny him the right to learn from his experiences.

That's how it worked out best for me. Often, pain was a pretty darn good teacher to me. When it hurts bad enough, I will change.
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Postby angel143 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:19 pm

Dallas wrote:I don't know. Maybe it's better to dive right into a relationship -- mix it up -- shake it up -- get some pain going on -- to help you dive into the solution.

Quarter Backing on Tuesday morning is always a lot more insightful than playing on the field in Sunday's game. Should-a, would-a, could-a, is sometimes only valuable when our butt didn't get beat bad enough on the field... and we need some additional punishment to make us think we're doing something right.

What makes one think -- that God isn't right in the middle -- of the things that we start referring to as "mistakes" and "blunders"?

AWWW MAN!!! I could have done wonders with it if God had of just kept His nose out of it!

Dallas




Hmmmmm....... lots of good info there..... somethin to think on.....

well, I will say somethin to ponder...cause thinkin usually gets me into trouble ;)

Thanks for the pondering..... 8)
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Postby ROBERT » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:28 am

WOW!!! For me i've found the situations where i'm most likely to make mistakes are also situations in which I have the greatest opportunities for growth! I don't seek mistakes but I don't avoid them either. I look to challenge my self and will seek circumstances that do just that. The road can be bumpy at times,but the way to get there is to get going! Have a great challenging day folks.
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