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Postby fat pollock » Wed May 26, 2010 11:33 am

I am new to the site clean and sober, but I am having a hard time with my steps. Dont jump the gun but i am an atheist, i know this causes some waves in my home meetings. its something that i have never hid from so i jumped out of there at one of my first meetings hoping to meet others like me. i know you are out there ! i have no problem with a power greater then my self but i am confused about step two how do i turn my will and life over to it? like i said please dont judge as i will not judge anyone for thier diffrances
thanks Dustin
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Postby DiggerinVA » Wed May 26, 2010 3:55 pm

How do you turn your will and your life over is step three. So lets look at two.
Came to believe that a Power greater ourselves could restore us to sanity.

This is one many make harder than it is. Do You believe that it worked for others? For example Bill W. If the answer is yes just borrow his. Or mine, they are the same since I borrowed his. Now once you believe in what worked for someone else it can work for you.

Step three is a leap of faith, that will work if you can do two. Also my Higher Power wants me to be happy and as long as I remember this I can do the next right thing. Oh an open mind helps, you may discover things that are new to you, also once in a while things we once believed in can have major holes shot in them, in this new journey of life.


Good Luck and I wish you a happy journey.
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Postby fat pollock » Wed May 26, 2010 5:56 pm

thanks very well put
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Postby gunner48 » Wed May 26, 2010 9:33 pm

Hi
There is no requirement to believe in God in step two. I started by becoming willing to believe in something more than myself. It didn't matter if I believed or not. In step 3 I simply made a decision to let the program of AA work in my life. Somewhere later something happened. Can't tell you what that was but I would bet that if you simply do the steps as outlined in the Big Book you will discover that something happened with you too. Best of luck to you. Has worked for me.

Peace and Love
Gunner
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Postby Dallas » Wed May 26, 2010 11:30 pm

For me, in Step 2, I "came to believe that the 12 Steps were a Power Greater than myself" that could restore me to sanity.

In Step 3, I made a decision to turn my will and life over to the care of "The 12 Steps".

Can you do those two things? If you can, congratulations! You've just took Step 2! ;-)

Now, read the instructions in the BB for Step 3, and take it, so that you can get on with Step 4.

Some people miss a little instruction on the bottom of page 58... regarding letting go of our old ideas.

When I took the 12 Steps, I took that instruction literally... I let go of all my old ideas about everything -- including God and AA, so that I could start with a blank page of reference.

So, I guess, technically, it could have been said of me that I was athiest. Maybe. Not even sure if I believe in athiest! :lol: :lol: I've never met a real one. After a few questions -- they nearly always believe in something -- even if it's the believing in nothing -- which, once they look at it is: A Power Greater than Themselves... because they are powerless over changing their minds. :lol:

One thing is for sure, athiest or not... you can only prove or dis-prove to yourself -- that there is or is not a God. You can't prove it to anyone else other than yourself.

What you could do, is something that I did, if you wanted to.

I started praying this prayer: "I don't know if anything out there can hear me or not... if you are there, I don't want to piss you off, for praying to you and making you mad at me... and if you're not there... it doesn't matter anyway". :lol:

Then, I would continue with: "I hope you're there -- because I'm really screwed! I've tried to help myself, and I've even tried AA... I can't help myself and I don't believe they can help me either. So, if you are there, and you do really care, and you wouldn't mind helping me... I sure would appreciate it if you would!"

Saying that prayer, for me... was not a problem because I wasn't admitting that there was or wasn't a God. And, if there was one -- I surely wanted to find out!

No one can prove anything to you. Only you can do that. But, why waste time trying to debate it with yourself or others in AA?

Can you admit -- that you need help, and without help, you're probably screwed? To admit, that you need help -- admits that there is a Power Greater than yourself, to you! If there wasn't -- you wouldn't need help. :wink:

Good luck! And, welcome to the site! I hope you'll keep coming back.

It worked for me.

Dallas
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Postby fat pollock » Thu May 27, 2010 10:40 am

Dallas you read my mind I had the same thought yesterday after rereading the steps in the big book!!!!! My thought was about faith in the steps, faith brings about a power greater then myself, that faith in the steps and the big book that if I follow the steps as addressed in the big book then the promases will come true just like it says. I am meeting with my sponsor today for coffee and I am goin to shake the same ideas with him. I thought I had done my steps up to 4 but then I read this "think well befor taking this step to make sure your ready. That I can abandon myself totally to a HP" as I read that It made me qestion if I cod do that with out any kind of reservation.
Thanks Dustin
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Postby Tim » Thu May 27, 2010 8:51 pm

I'd suggest that you read Chapter 4 in the Big Book, 'We Agnostics'. Try to keep an open mind as you read. Write down your thoughts and questions as you read, including what you agree with and what you disagree with. I think this experiment will be well worth it and may lead you towards belief in a power higher than yourself. Alcohol was a power greater than ourselves or we would never have tried AA's 12-step program. We would have stopped drinking or controlled our drinking by our our own willpower.
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Postby Dallas » Fri May 28, 2010 8:30 pm

I can remember back to the very day, when I was new and sitting in a meeting trying to sort it out. :lol: And, one of those "strange things" started going on in my head. It was a memory, of when I was a little kid about five years old. My family had moved into a big apartment building on Sunset Blvd. in Los Angeles -- we were new to the area and the whole thing of big city and apartment building was totally new and awesome to me as a kid! :lol: I watched these two little scrawny guys lift this huge piano up to a second or third floor balcony type thing... with some ropes and pulleys. Neither one of those guys could have picked up the piano, and I doubt seriously if they both could have lifted it together! :lol: But, with those pulleys and the ropes... they easily lifted the piano! That had become one of my favorite kid memories for years. I became a pulley fan! And, I started collecting pulley wheels and ropes hoping to someday figure out how they did it!

When I was sitting in the meeting, and the weird thing happened to me, it brought back that memory. Somebody had said something about "tools" or something and then said something about the 12 Steps. I was still too much in a fog to know what they really were talking about, but suddenly the thought crossed my mind like "Tools? Okay. I know what tools are! Wrenches and screwdrivers and sockets! Oh year... like a car jack, too! Lifting a car w/ a jack... that I would never be able to lift on my own strength, but w/ a jack! No problemo! And, then the memory flashed up w/ the two scrawny guys... and the ropes and pulleys... and I thought... Oh! Okay! 'Power Greater than Myself, eh?' By using 'tools' I could do something that I could never do before!"

That's when I started thinking... "12 Steps? Hmmm. 12 Wrenches! 12 Jacks! 12 Screwdrivers! 12 Pulleys w/ ropes!" :lol: :lol:

So, I started to believe in something that made sense to me. "A Power that I could have some kind of my own understanding about!" Something personal to me! And, that was the kicker that got me started. Once I had opened my mind to Something... even if it were only 'tools'... it made sense to me. I figured, Okay! I can try this! I'll try the Steps!

That was near the same time that my sponsor had said to me, about the necessity of "letting go of my old ideas absolutely" and that he thought I wouldn't be able to do that! He said, that he didn't believe that I could let go of my old ideas... and it was my old ideas that were going to keep me from staying sober and being able to get this deal. He had worked with probably a couple of hundred drunks and had helped them... but he told me he had never worked w/ one as bad off as I was! :lol: :lol: And, said "don't get your hopes too high!"

Years later... he said he didn't say that to me! :lol: :lol: He said 'you might have heard that but I didn't tell you that!" And, to this day, I'd swear that he did! I heard it!

What I heard -- even though he swears he didn't say it -- was precisely what I needed to hear! It was the truth! And, the truth was in the process of setting me free! The truth was: I was hopeless! I had already lost the game! I was nuts! I couldn't save myself, and even the greatest sponsor I could find... and all the human power in AA... couldn't help me! I needed a power greater than all of that! And, if I didn't find a way to find one -- I was screwed! Doomed! :lol:

So, I became willing to do anything and go to any lengths. And, the 12 Steps were what lead me to getting rescued.

That's why I tell the new people when I get the opportunity to help them, "I don't give a crap about what you believe or don't believe! I don't want to hear it! We're going to focus on taking actions and that's all I'm going to talk w/ you about is taking the actions." And, that's what we do. And, to my amazement and theirs... they get better. What can I say? We may be doing it wrong -- but, we ain't drinking and we're getting better! :lol: :lol:

The funny thing, too? We all end up coming to believe in something! :wink:

So, my suggestion to anyone is: Don't worry about being right or wrong. The only thing you are positively wrong about is taking a drink! It's always wrong to take a drink! Now, let's get to work!

Works for me. And, it's worked for them. What can I say? I actually don't want to know "How or Why"... because getting into "How or Why" gets me into thinking... and it's my thinking that will lead me back to drinking. And, it's my actions that will lead me to and keep me in, sobriety.

Dallas
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Postby fat pollock » Sat May 29, 2010 10:32 am

thanks all, i have 71 days, and with working the steps i will be able to bear myself ...lol hope to pick up some insight from other recovered alcoholics
dustin
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Postby Dallas » Sun May 30, 2010 9:46 am

Take the Steps -- Work the Elevator. Elevator might be broke and take you lower -- but if you "TAKE" the Steps... you'll still go Higher!

TOOK.... TOOK.... TOOK... Here are the Steps We TOOK.

It might look like a funny play on words -- but, I ASSURE you... that it isn't!
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