- On the basis of self-knowledge, can I stay sober?

On the basis of self-knowledge, can I stay sober?




Help for alcohol abuse addiction alcoholics who want to stay sober

Postby Dallas » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:58 am

If Step 1 isn't thoroughly owned by a prospect, he/she will become one of the statistics that "prove" "I did AA and it didn't work for me".


It shows that they were one of the statistics that "prove" that "A.A. didn't work for them -- because they didn't work A.A." Alcoholics Anonymous IS the 12 Steps.

What some of us on this site are concerned with... is the perception that the newcomer gets... that "going to a meeting and taking a chair -- is doing AA." Recovery doesnt take place from occupying a chair.... no matter how long they sit in the chair.

What's the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The newcomer has not "worked" A.A. until they have taken the 12 Steps.

What's the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The 12 Steps IS the AA Treatment for Alcoholism. The 12 Steps are taken to remove the obsession to drink... to deal with the alcoholic insanity of the next first drink and to free the alcoholic of alcoholic insanity.

Why the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The alcoholic does not have a defense against the next first drink... that's the alcoholic insanity.

Why the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The hurry is... we don't want the alcoholic to go back out and drink and die.

Why the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The sooner the insanity and the obsession to drink are removed -- the alcoholic is in a much better position -- to being using the 12 Steps as a Design for Living.

If you don't stop the bleeding... and the bleeding is killing the alcoholic... why waste time trying to show them a Design for Healthy Living?


The first Nine Steps prepare the alcoholic with the foundation that they need so that they can stay sober -- for sober living. That's what the hurry is.

Without the foundation of the first Nine Steps, and then the completion of all 12 Steps... the alcoholic, in A.A. terms, is "white knuckling it"... they're "on the water and coffee wagon."

In AA, Recovery takes place as a "result" of taking the 12 Steps... not from sitting around in meetings, sitting in a chair talking about your problems. Talking about your problems... will only give you more "Self-Knowledge"... which is what this Topic is about...

Why the hurry?

1. If you are having a heart-attack and it was going to kill you... do you have a desire to not be having the heart-attack? Yes/No.

2. If you are having a heart-attack and it's going to kill you...
Do you want to get to the hospital immediately so that, hopefully, they can do something to save your life? Yes/No.

If you answer Yes to both questions... dial 911 and pray that the ambulance get's there in time!

1. If you're having a heart-attack and it is going to kill you... do you want to think about it for a while before dialing 911? Yes/No

2. If your answer to number 1 is Yes... all you need to decide from that point is how long you want to think about it.... until you become convinced that you are having a heart-attack and it's going to kill you.

Alcoholism and heart-attacks are equally fatal. Grave conditions. They will kill you.

So, we don't ask them, when they come in... "do you want to admit you're alcoholic... and start the Steps"?

We ask... "Do you want to get over your drinking problem?"

When they first come in, most often... it's because of a "drinking problem" and not alcoholism... It doesn't mean that they are or are not an alcoholic.

If the question is: "Do you think it's got you licked?" (i.e. the drinking game is "it's" )... if the answer is No... and they do not desire to stop drinking... they are not ready to take the Steps.

If the answer is "Yes. I think the drinking has me licked... and I desire to stay sober"... then they are ready to "start" taking the Steps.

To start "taking the Steps" does not start with Step 2.... To start the Steps it starts with Step 1.

Can we help them take Step 1? Sure we can. That's what a 12 Step call is all about. (Or.. in treatment lingo: Intervention?)

While we can't take any of the Steps for them... we can help them with each of the Steps... and most importantly with Step 1. This is what "12th Stepping them" is all about.... if they allow us to do this.

Unfortunately, the idea flowing around in AA that is so commonly popular... is that "treatment of alcoholism begins with the treatment center.".... and the treatment center does the work for them, and AA is simply a "support system." Meetings and a Fellowship to get support to re-enforce the activities of a treatment center.

This popular idea causes more problems for more alcoholic and for Alcoholics Anonymous... than trying to assist someone in "taking the Steps too soon! :wink:

Dallas
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Postby DiggerinVA » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:26 pm

tim-one wrote:PS: What's the hurry?

If Step 1 isn't thoroughly owned by a prospect, he/she will become one of the statistics that "prove" "I did AA and it didn't work for me".

Why not relax and let them get it real before taking the next step, every next step?

Love,
Tim1



I got one of those temporary sponsee's from the local rehab center. Medically he was shot. Numerious trips to the ER for his body failing from Alcohol. But he would not let go in the belief that his self will would win. I learned allot from him. But it sucked to just have him be dishonest the whole time. I'm not really fond of the rehab system at this time. In time I will grow to understand it.

Let see someone once wrote. "But there is One who has all power - That One is God. You must find Him now!"
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Postby Dallas » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:07 pm

It's kind of like... this guy goes up in an airplane with a guide...
They strap on a parachute... and the guide tells the guy how to use it... shows him the cord to pull... because the guide is going to show him
how to jump out of the plane...

At 20,000 feet the guy jumps out of the plane..
He's enjoying the view...
And, a bird flys by and says "why don't you pull the cord man?"

The guy replies "What's the hurry? I don't want to miss the view! Besides, I'll get a little chip on the ground that proves I jumped out of the plane!

Then, another bird flys by... "Pull the cord man! You're going to splat! Pull the cord!"

And, the guy says... "I don't want to pull the cord too soon!
I don't want to end up as a statistic and prove that I was one of the one's that jumped out of the plane and it didn't work!"

The bird says "Well... you can always change your mind!"

The guy continues to fall... without pulling the cord...

Then, he splats on the ground!

Congratulations on your jump man! You just proved that jumping out of a plane works if you work it!

The guy doesn't respond... not because of the splat on the ground...
but, because he's dead!

The guide is still asking him "why didn't you pull the cord!?" Well, here's your chip man! You just proved that jumping out of the plane works!

Still no answer...

So, the guide grabs another prospect...
and they take off in the plane...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What's the hurry?
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Postby DiggerinVA » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:28 pm

Dallas you just got to love it. What a great analogy. It was his choice.
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Postby tim-one » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:22 am

Great stuff, guys.

Re: rehab. Some need it. I did. Some are so far gone that it's already too late. Some, mostly not their by choice, just never surrender.

Rehab only breaks the chain that was holding them under water. AA teaches them to swim.

Hey, if you are serious about sponsoring, rehabs have a steady flow of newbies ripe for the pickins. Maybe they're waiting for you to teach 'em to swim. Don't let the rehabs turn them out without the benefit of your sobriety.

Good point, Dallas. Many die taking too long. It's hard to watch. But, as alluded to, the instructor had no control over the rip-cord. After instructing the guy how to do it, he could only watch.

Dam shame, but the guy had to learn at his own pace.

Still, what's the hurry?

I'd rather see one really get it. Maybe spend more time in on-the-ground training than to dump them out of a plane too soon.

But that's just my take on it. :wink:

Love,
Tim1
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Postby tim-one » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:26 am

HAHahahahahaha ..catch up, Tim ....

Just noticed how much has gone on before I posted that. If you're wondering, go back to page one ... rmember the subject? :lol:

it's like ... "OK, Tim ... we'ved MOVED ON! ... pay attention." :lol:
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Postby Dallas » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:58 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:


http://www.step12.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1428


Time for me to move on, too.

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Postby tim-one » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:18 am

Time for me to move on, too.


whatchamean by that , Dallas ? :shock:

Not pullin' a Palin on us, is ya?
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Postby Dallas » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:09 am

Tim-one wrote:Not pullin' a Palin on us, is ya?


No Tim, I'm not leaving the site or A.A. .... Someone needs to be here for you ... just in case rehab and treatment fail you at some time in the future! :lol: :lol:

BTW: You'll make a fine treatment counselor, someday! :wink:
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Postby tim-one » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:36 pm

Oh, good. Stay around for me so I have somebody to blame when I fail rehab or AA. :wink:

Nobody's job but mine to keep me sober. Not even HP's.

It only works if I work it.

Love,
Tim1
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