- An Alcoholic Suicide Epidemic....

An Alcoholic Suicide Epidemic....




Help for alcohol abuse addiction alcoholics who want to stay sober

Postby carol1017 » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:37 pm

I heard in a meeting once that "God doesn't have feet -- that's why we need to do the footwork".

Works for me!
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Postby garden variety » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:36 pm

I see. It's just a matter of "feelings" then. It's all for the good. Because the God of my understanding works somewhere other than where I can sense or feel it many times. But there are also many times I do sense and feel the Presence.

What Dallas said is true too. It doesn't matter what I believe or understand about God either. The books says "Here are the steps we took", not "Here are the steps we understood" or "Here are the steps we believe" or "Here are the steps we felt". But for me, I can say that for today that the actions I take, I also believe in, understand, and feel hopeful about. For the most part anyway.

If the others who posted understood what you meant, Deb, it just means that I'm a little dense at times. It wouldn't be the first time. Sorry I missed it. When I see the word "choice" related to the word "alcohol", it turns into a simple math equation: CHOICE + DRINKING ALCOHOL does not equal ME. Its just been drilled into me that way. Then I've heard people from N.A. say they make a "choice" when they relapse, and that might be their philosophy, but it doesn't work that way for me.

I don't think I ever said that the only thing keeping me sober is God and God alone. What I believe is what the book says. My defense against the first drink must come from a Higher Power. So I look at that as just a fact. It doesn't matter what I think, or how I feel, or what I understand.

I don't understand God either. The only thing I know from my experience is that when it comes to keeping me sober, God will do for me the things that I can't do. I know that I can't keep myself sober - I've proved that. But I also realize that as long as there's an action for me to take that is suggested, then I will do it. I will keep doing actions that work to help me achieve sobriety. So I'm guessing that's what happened to you that night, Deb. Somewhere you slacked on some actions and things started getting real ugly real fast.

Did I say somewhere that God does everything to keep me sober and it doesn't take any action on my part? If I said that then I was plain wrong. God will provide me with Direction. If God gives me Direction, and I don't follow it, then God won't follow it for me - or make me follow it. So if I want to take God out of my sobriety, I just don't follow the Directions. My understanding has always been that if a God of my understanding is not the Power either doing the Caretaking and/or Directing of my will and my life, and it is left up to my choice, I will drink again, or as you say "bend the elbow". If that's not the way it works, then maybe someone can tell me the right way.

I get Grace and Mercy from God. I get Love for my fellows from God. I get Humility from God. I get Forgiveness from God. I don't have any of those things on my own. All of the things I get from God are given to me in forms of Power that I use to take actions that keep me sober. If I don't put the Power behind actions, I don't keep sober. Its like living. If I have a dream, but I don't put legs on it, or I don't take any action on it, then its not a dream - its a fantasy.

Maybe just for me, my "beliefs" about God and my "actions" are in line with each other most of the time. I thought it was supposed to be that way? I offer my will to God, and He Directs my thoughts and actions. Maybe just for me, what I "believe" about God is based on the spiritual principles that He's given me in the 12 steps. So maybe just for me, my sobriety is determined by what I believe about God. After all, isn't that what step two is about? Coming to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity?

I mean its true that I don't have to think, feel, or believe that "God as I understand Him" will keep me sober. It's true that my actions are what matter most. But I hope there isn't anything wrong with having thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and actions in accord with one another. For me that gives the road I've been trudging something of a "Happy Destiny" each day- at least that's how it looks to me.
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Postby Dallas » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:05 pm

I believe that we're all understanding the same thing here -- we're just sometimes thinking about it from different angles. :lol: The Power is the same. The actions are the same. If the Power is the same and the actions are the same -- the results will be the same. :lol: Our understanding may differ -- because it's supposed to differ -- or else it wouldn't be "As we understood It." :wink:

If our actions are the same -- it connects us with the Power that is the same -- and regardless if we understand it the same, or different, or whether we understand it or not, believe it or not, or think about it or not -- the results will be the same.

The results are what's important to me. Am I happy, joyous, free and sober? Am I getting better? Do I have peace of mind? Serenity? Calmness? Am I growing in a healthy and positive direction -- living life to the fullest -- cleaning up any wreckage as I go along -- and reaching out to help others?

If I'm doing that and experiencing that -- it's more probable than not -- that I'm probably taking the right actions -- regardless of what I think about it. :lol:

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Postby carol1017 » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:14 pm

I agree Dallas.

I don't need to understand God -- God understands me, and as long as I do the footwork, God will lead me in the right direction.
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Postby Dallas » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:19 am

Thanks Carol.

You message helps to remind me that I may not be so different and alone in my understanding.

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Postby Candy » Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:05 am

Im sad to read those who died. U can die drinking or not drinking. If u drink u will die. It has happened here 2. Dallas told me that if I did not change I would drink again and die. I didnt listen to him cause I was different. I drank. I nearly died. Im tryin agian but it is so hard I dont know if I will make it. Im tryin 2 change. Dallas, as always you were right again. I wish I listened to you. God I hope I can make it.

Get serious about being sober or life will get 2 serious for you and you will drink again if you dont change. Dallas told me that. The alcoholic mind will kill you drunk or sober if it is not treated. Dallas told me that. Dont follow my example. I was sober and I was happy but I didnt want to work to stay happy and sober. I wanted to just have fun and play and not change to get better and stay sober with out doin what I was told to do. I was told what I had to do but I didnt think I had to do it. Dont do it like me.

Love u all
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Postby Dallas » Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:47 am

Hey Candy!

It sure is great to hear from you and to know that you are sober and that you are trying again. Give up on the trying and "Just do it!"

You are lucky to be surrounded up there with the best A.A.'s in the world -- "they can" when "you can't" if you will listen to them - let them help you and guide you -- and you take the action. None of us can take your actions for you. We can all help you -- but it's you -- that has to do it.

You can get this deal. And, you can make it. You are sober now -- so that means you do have a choice to take the actions or not take the actions -- that will keep you sober.

Stop thinking and focus all your energy and efforts on doing. Take the tiny actions -- don't worry about the big stuff. Drop the rock of self-pity. Step up to the plate and make your recovery #1 most important thing in your life. It's easier that way. It's the way I've had to do it -- and it's the way that I still have to do it. So, just get used to it.

When I listen to my head -- I get into all kinds of difficult situations and life can become unbearable for me, too. When I follow my sponsors direction -- and live the principles rather than just think about them -- my life gets good. And, my thinking straightens out. And, I get happy again -- about my life and about my sobriety.

Remember that yesterday is history -- tomorrows' a mystery -- and the only time that's important is right now. When we do what's right -- right now -- the mystery of tomorrow begins to change for the better. And, we stay sober today.

Hugs to you kid. You CAN do it -- you MUST do it -- and, that's ALL there is to it! :lol:

Keep coming back!

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Postby anniemac » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:41 pm

Thanks for your post, Candy. I'm glad that you made it back. Your message in an important one. Do not regret the past or wish to shut the door on it - your experience can help others. I totally agree with Dallas about dropping that rock of self-pity -- for me, self-pity is far more dangerous than anger/resentments. I know the Big Book says otherwise, but that's my personal experience. Not saying resentments aren't a killer also, but man that self-pity is horrid.

Rooting for you to get back on your feet and build a solid foundation in AA.
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Postby garden variety » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:46 am

Very true Annie.

I think that's because self-pity is driven by the same "motivator" as resentments. This is how I see it in the book:

"Selfishness - self-centeredness! That we think is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt."

The chief motivator: selfishness and self centeredness.

I really think that resentments and self-pity have the same "root". If they have the same root, then they are growing on the same "plant." Now I know there are some plants where the one part like the root is not poisonous but the leaves are and so forth, but I with this one I think the whole thing is just as deadly - one part or the other. Whether it's fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, or self pity.

So I'm going to have to agree with you Annie, that self-pity is just as dangerous to me as resentments. Thanks for your words.

Hi Candy, I don't know if I know you, but you know the drill. Get into these steps with the desperation of drowning women and things will turn out all right again. You're alive and have another chance, what a blessing!
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Postby anniemac » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:57 am

Good point, Paul. It's all selfishness and self-seeking, just depends how it manifests itself. I didn't do a lot of getting angry, but I sure did a tremendous amount of wallowing.
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