- PAINS OF GROWING UP --OR RECOVERED?

PAINS OF GROWING UP --OR RECOVERED?




Discussions related to 12 Step Recovery and Treatment

PAINS OF GROWING UP --OR RECOVERED?

Postby ROBERT » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:29 am

HI PEOPLE HOPE YA'LL HAVE A FINE WEEKEND. I WAS LOOKING @ THE SPOTS IN THE B.B. WHERE IT TELLS US WE ARE RECOVERED AND THERE ARE MANY...SO I WOULD LIKE TO HERE WHAT OTHERS BELIEVE ABOUT THIS QUESTION ...IF WE ARE RECOVERED,WHEN WE ARE RECOVERED IS IT NOW A MATTER OF GROWING UP?......ROBERT
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Postby Dallas » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:59 pm

For me, recovered, means that I'm an alcoholic that's sober and not drinking today. I'm always going to be alcoholic. Period. I might pick up a drink later today or tomorrow -- but, if I keep doing what I've been doing that has kept me sober -- I'll be sober today and tomorrow.

Recover, recovered, recovery... terms that are great for alcoholic debate and theory... to me, is podium talk. It's great for controversy, uneasiness, and it fits perfectly with the alcoholic need of being "unique and different from the others." However, all it means is: I'm alcoholic and I'm not drinking.

The real question is: Am I treating my alcoholism? If I don't treat it -- it's no different than heart disease that goes untreated. It's progressive and it gets worse.

I treat my alcoholism with AA's program of recovery: the 12 Steps. And, I participate in the Fellowship of AA, as part of that recovery. Doing the stuff I need to do to maintain the sobriety that I've achieved.

I use the tools that have been passed on to me to maintain my sobriety, to help me change the things that I must change, to grow in understanding and effectiveness, to grow up, to recreate and to rebuild my life, to cope and to deal with emotional restructuring and conflicts and... to attempt to gain some level of progress at achieving maturity. :wink:

For some, the subject of recovered, recovery and recover... gets turned into much-a-do about nothing more than sober. :wink:

If they identify with the first 100, and the little line in the BB, that says "We are more than 100 men and women who have recovered"... that's okay with me. Many of the original 100 that was referred to (and in actuality there was less than a hundred)... went back to drinking! If those original 100, and now many thousands... were "recovered"... but, went back to drinking... What's the big deal of identification as something "unique and different"?

For me... I'd rather use my time and effort on things that can make a difference in my life -- rather than speculate on opinion and theory -- that has never gotten one alcoholic sober! :wink:

Thanks for the topic!

For me... there have been great pains in attempting to grow up. Sometimes, I'm trying too hard and too fast to grow and that causes more pain. And, my sponsor has to remind me to relax and take it easy... growing, just as change... is often incremental and slow. :lol:

I've still got a lot of growing to do. :wink:

Dallas
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Postby Tim » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:17 pm

Robert--Few if any would claim that one does not have to grow up after putting the plug in the jug. The best way I have personally found to do that is to use the 12 Steps daily or oftener. Recovery from alcoholism is best done in the company of other alcoholics who use the 12 Steps. It's a 'we' business.

Several of the many dictionary definitions of recover (I'll leave it to the language experts to decide whether recovered or recovering , past participle or gerund, is the correct form of word recover to use) offer what I take to be some helpful hints about what might be involved when one recovers from alcoholism

1. to get back or regain (something lost or taken away)

2. to make up for or make good

3. to regain the strength, composure, balance, or the like, of (oneself).

4. to reclaim from a bad state, practice, etc.

5. to regain in usable form, as from refuse material or from a waste product .

6. to regain health after being sick, wounded, or the like : to recover from an illness.

7. to regain a former and better state or condition
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Postby ROBERT » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:22 pm

WOW...NO>>DOUBLE WOW..YOU GUYS REALLY HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF PASSION....I FOR ONE FIND THAT TRAIT EXTREMLY ATTRACTIVE...THIS PROGRAM OF RECOVERY--NOT MY PROGRAM,THE 12 STEPS OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS IS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR IN THE BOTTLE,IN RELATIONSHIPS,SPENDING MONEY..ETC.ETC AND I LIKE WHAT YOU SAID DALLAS ABOUT RE-CREATING OUR LIVES ......C'MON WE GET TO LIVE 2 LIVES IN 1 LIFETIME...AND WHILE WE ARE IN OUR 2ND LIFE WE ARE ALLOWED TO PASS THIS ON TO OUR FELLOWS...WHICH IS AN OPEN ENDED PROPOSITION TO ALL WHOM WE COME INTO CONTACT WITH, AT ON TIME I HAD THE IDEA THIS WAS ONLY TO BE SHARED W/FELLOW ALKIS...BOY TALK ABOUT SELF IMPOSED LIMITATION...ANY HOW I AM OF THE ATTITUDE AS THE B.B. STATES SO MANY TIMES WE ARE RECOVERED--BUT THERE IS A CONDITION TO THAT CLAIM ...A DAILY REPRIEVE BASED ON MY SPIRITUAL CONDITION-AS DALLAS WROTE IF I CONTINUE TO PRACTICE TODAY THE PRINCIPLES THAT HELPED KEEP ME IN THE SUNLIGHT OF THE SPIRIT YESTERDAY--THEN I CAN REMAIN RECOVERED, AND AS LONG AS I KEEP UP THIS HEALTHY PRACTICE..AS A BY PRODUCT OF RIGHT LIVING I GET TO GROW AND GROW UP--WHICH IN MY OPINION CAN BE TWO DIFFERENT STATES OR LEVELS..I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE ON THIS....THE SKY IS THE LIMIT--DEPENDING HOW MUCH WILLINGNESS AND EFFORT I PUT FORTH.I AM ONLY LIMITED BY ME ...GOD HAS NO LINES,NO BOUNDRIES,NO LIMITS. GOD EITHER IS OR ISN'T....IT'S ABOUT LIVING SO LETS LIVE...........[/u]
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Postby sunlight » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:38 pm

Hi Robert! :D

I love reading about your experiences and you've been very helpful to me, as I am in a very low spot at the time.

But, I know the steps work for everything, because I've proven that to myself over & over, and today they work just as well, if not better! :wink:

Thank God for God, and the fellowship of AA, both of whom have saved me from shipwreck.

( Tim - I love the definition: to regain in usable form, as from refuse material or from a waste product. Describes me exactly today! :lol: The next step is to regain a former or better state or condition. 8) )
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Postby ROBERT » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:42 am

HEY SUNLIGHT--SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR LOW SPOT--IT'S LIFE YA KNOW...WE ARE EITHER COMING OUT OF A SITUATION--GOING INTO A SITUATION--OR IN THE MIDDLE OF ONE.WHEN I WAS ACTIVE IN MY USING I HAD THIS DILUSION THAT I COULD AVOID PAIN,IN REALITY MY THRESH HOLD FOR THE PAIN INCREASED,AS THE DISEASE PROGRESSED..AND MY USING HAD TO INCREASE AS WELL--JUST ONE BIG VICIOUS MESS....CALLED ALCOHOLISM THEN ALONG CAME A A ....THEY SAID ,STOP DRINKING AND IT'LL GET BETTER, WELL AT FIRST IT DID NOT, IT GOT WORSE-SO THEN I HEARD DON'T LEAVE TILL THE MIRACLE HAPPENS- IT DID AND IT WORKED--I WASN'T AVOIDING PAIN THE OLD WAY I JUST WASN'T MANUFACTURING IT AS MUCH.THIS PROGRAM IS AWESOME...WHEN I WORK AT IT --LIKE A LINE FROM OUR 12&12 ### SHORT OF CONTINUOUS ACTION UPON THESE(STEPS)AS A WAY OF LIFE CAN BRING THE MUCH DESIRED #### IS THE MUCH DESIRED RESULT? TO BE SOBER AND HAPPY AND W/OUT RIGOROUS HONESTY WITH MY SELF....WELL I JUST CAN'T GET THERE..SO NO PAIN... YEA YOU KNOW ...NO GAIN....GOD BLESS
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Postby Dallas » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:46 am

Robert wrote:I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE ON THIS....THE SKY IS THE LIMIT--DEPENDING HOW MUCH WILLINGNESS AND EFFORT I PUT FORTH.I AM ONLY LIMITED BY ME ...GOD HAS NO LINES,NO BOUNDRIES,NO LIMITS. GOD EITHER IS OR ISN'T....IT'S ABOUT LIVING SO LETS LIVE......


It sure is refreshing to read to read that!
I defintetly agree with you!
I am only limited by me -- my thinking and doing.
My thoughts and actions.
God has no boundries or limits.
God lives... We live... Let's be living!

Robert wrote:NOTHING SHORT OF CONTINUOUS ACTION UPON THESE(STEPS)AS A WAY OF LIFE CAN BRING THE MUCH DESIRED #### IS THE MUCH DESIRED RESULT?


When I first reached out to AA
all I wanted was to be able to be physically sober.
That was my much desired result.
I didn't think it was possible to be happy and sober at the same time.
And, I was willing to go to any lengths just to be physically sober...
even if it meant miserably sober! :lol:

What I discovered was... a few people in the Fellowship
that were living the good life... they were making progress in recreating and rebuilting their lives. They had the kind of life that I had always desired. They had material stuff and they had character. They were doing life with honesty. They had energy and passion. They had magnetic charasmatic personalities. They were generous and giving. They had hope and they gave me hope. They were encouraging and they encouraged me. They were happy in their relationships. And, there was happiness in their homes.

They had everything in their lives sober... that I was trying to have by drinking.

Yet, there were many others in the Fellowship... that were obviously like me at the time... just physically sober and miserable, but willing to live the miserable just to be physically sober.

I decided to pick out the positive people in the Fellowship that had what I wanted. I came to believe -- that if I did what they did -- I would have the hope of having and being what they were.

I watched what they did. And, I did what they were doing. And, suddenly I discovered that I was living the good life, too! And, I was still sober!

For a while I got stuck on trying to figure out : What is THE much desired reality? And, I discovered that I was thinking to much! It was causing my head to ache! My thinking was keeping me from living and doing. I had thought that I had to "figure it out"... to have it. I discovered that I didn't have to "figure out anything"... I had to be doing! More doing and less thinking.

I was fortunate to meet people that asked me: "What is your much desired reality? What do you really want in your life? What do you want to be when you grow up?" Without knowing what I wanted -- I would probably never have it. So, I got busy with a notepad... writing down the things that I wanted to have, and do, and be.

I began to make what I called "Treasure Maps". They were large poster boards... and I went through used magazines cutting out the pictures that represented to me, the life and the things that I wanted. I kept adding to my TM until it was full. Then, I made a small TM that I could carry with me. (Often keeping it in my Big Book, I took it with me and kept it on me all the time). If I didn't have my book, I folded it up and put it in my pocket.

While having coffee and conversations in restaurants... I would often ask others, the normal folks "What is your much desired reality? What do you want in your life? What do you want to be, to do, and to have?"

They were most often stunned my my question. They had no idea of what they wanted... so, they would ask me the same question... "What do you want?"

I would pull out my small TM and show them and explain what each photo and image represented to me. Often, I would hear, "I think you're the first person I've ever met that knows what he wants!"

I have now had or experienced most of the things that were on my TM..
and ever so often, I find myself making new ones to replace the old ones that I've experienced.

It's fun and rewarding to me... knowing that by using the principles and tools that were passed on to me... I can create and recreate the things that I desire!

Sorry, I got to windy! I seem to get carried away when I'm thinking of positive possibility thinking! :lol:

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Postby sunlight » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:53 am

Re: recovered/recovering

I need to be careful about putting on"labels".

Once I get out the label maker & start cranking out the letters for a person, situation or myself, & label it good/bad, ugly/pretty, recovering/recovered, there's a risk of me filing it away as something I already know & dismissing it.

Then, I've missed the gift of it!

Now, how green is that? :roll: :mrgreen:

Let's say - the big book - have I read it or am I reading it? Both!

Have I taken the steps or am I taking the steps? Both! :D

Am I recovered or recovering? Both!

This keeps me open to any & all possibilities in the present moment. :wink:
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Postby ROBERT » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:44 am

JUST GOT IN FROM MY SATURDAY MORNING MEETING..A COUPLE OF B-DAYS....A NEW COMER,WHAT A FABULOUS WAY TO START THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF MY LIFE. GREAT STUFF SUNLIGHT..THANK YOU--FOR ME I FEEL CURRENT WHEN I ALLOW MY SELF THE EXPERIENCE TO REALIZE THAT I HAVE RECOVERED.IT'S A STATE OF MIND FOR ME-VS-A LABEL---AND I TOTALLY AGREE THAT "LABELING" DOES LIMIT US THANK YOU FOR REMINDING ME ---I ADVOCATE-IT IS WHAT IT IS MENTALITY,SO I DON'T GET IN TO OH IT'S GOOD OR OH IT'S BAD OR IT WAS A WRONG DESICION,ETC, ETC.THOSE TYPES OF SELF LIMITING THOUGHT PATTERNS ARE OF NO VALUE TO ME...THIS POSITIVE/NEGATIVE THINKING STUFF IS COVERED TO A DEGREE IN STEP 2 IN THE 12&12 AND THRU OUT THE B.B.THIS FALLS RIGHT IN LINE W/WHAT DALLAS WAS SO KIND AND THOUGHT FULL TO SHARE WITH US ABOUT THE TM---AWESOME ---IT'S LIKE WHERE WE ARE INSTRUCTED TO MOLD OUR IDEALS,SANE & SOUND,FOR OUR FUTURE SEX LIVES---WELL I CAN USE THAT SAME PRINCIPLE IN ALL MY AFFAIRS---AS IT SAYS "WE GOT THIS ALL DOWN ON PAPER AND LOOKED AT IT"--WOW YOU GUYS ARE REALLY GOOD FOR ME---THANKS
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Postby GeoffS » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:16 am

Recovered-recovering

does it matter? Whichever I am I need to do the same thing on a daily basis either way to maintain my spiritual fitness, and thus have a daily reprieve from alcoholism.

The good thing is I get to hear from others how to do it.
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