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12th Step Work




Discussions related to 12 Step Recovery and Treatment

Postby Jools » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:01 am

Paul,

Thank you for your view on women in AA. I think it's awesome that you're shedding some light on the subject because I think it's been ignored FAR too long.

My sponsor is sponsoring a young woman, 20 to be exact, and it makes me sick to my stomach watching the men behave like they do. You're right, we're not in Jr High.

On the flip side, Sunlight has some good points too.
One thing I will mention is, unless you're a hooker coming in for your 1st AA meeting, please don't dress like one! I see so many women dressed like they're for sale and then they wonder why they're attracting so much "unwanted" attention from the men. Point made.


Now, I watched a 40 yr old man latch onto this young lady. Our sponsor told me that she has made suggestions to the young lady about this man and that's all she can do because it's actually an outside issue. I know from personal experience that using a man as my god caused me to go back out, but guess what? Drinking caused me to come back in and I truly learned from THAT lil mistake.

Thanx for sharing about this.

Julie
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Postby tim-one » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:19 pm

I totally agree with what's being written here. Women have long had trouble in mixed meetings and being womanized by guys.

Well, shoot ... all I think is that men are not all pigs, but it only takes one to establish the "all" perception. We're all here with trust issues from our various experiences. Not good to give cause for "the appearance of evil".

I have a personal joke with my wife. "I can legally flirt now. She's young and pretty, and I'm .... like .... no-chance-old-guy." :P

In AA context, I ONLY squish the older-than-me girls. (Oh ... a squish is a caring hug.) I do the shoulder-touch, back-pat hug with the other girls. The guys get bear-hugs.

However, I am VERY CAREFUL with my words, looks, hugs, et.al. in any AA related situation. The guys I know are also very aware that any attention toward women can easily be construed as wrongful intent. Especially since the men and the women are so emotionally vulnerable as alcoholics. And are often defenseless.

What do they call that syndrome when a patient falls in love with a nurse?

It's far too easy for either to manipulate the other for any reason. And I've seen it both directions. Guys ain't immune to the girls wayward advances, either. I got sucked into a young girl's fearful eyes once. I was carefully distant from her, but helped her as I could without getting close or too compassionate. I believed her story. It took the other women to clue me in to her manipulative skills. She had ME snowed.

Personally, I don't know why either would want to date another alcoholic. We're INSANE fer cryin' out loud!

Oh, yeah, I NEEEEED me some o'THAT! :shock:

If we see an AA couple-up, an eyebrow raises.

Love y'all, (uh ... platonically ... as alcoholics. Got that, girls?) 8)
Tim1
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Postby Jools » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:23 pm

Personally, I don't know why either would want to date another alcoholic. We're INSANE fer cryin' out loud!

Oh, yeah, I NEEEEED me some o'THAT! Shocked


ROFL, Tim1..you're too funny and a refreshing poster!!!
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Postby Susan68 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:55 pm

garden variety wrote:In my opinion, many men in the fellowship have a problems with respecting and understanding women. Women in A.A. are not bimboes that look "hot" in tight jeans! For God's sake roll your tongues back into your mouth and plug your eyeballs back into their sockets! This isn't Junior High. Alcoholic women are leaving meetings to die because of the lack of self-control and excess testosterone. :shock:


It's probably good for me that I joined AA at my present age rather than even 10 years ago or earlier. I so have no time for mens' #$@$#. Quick store: One day, at one of my earlier meetings (I was probably in week 3), this guy came up to me from the other side of the room at the end of a speaker meeting and enthusiastically asked me if I had been at such and such meeting the other day, to I responded yes, and he gave me a pretty hardy hug (sort of bypassing that shoulder touch to the full on chest embrace) and he said something about me being a newcomer and being important, etc. So, since this is the majestic AA naturally it did not even occur to me to think this was anything less than genuine. The next week I run into him at another meeting. I was sort of sitting there, reading a pamphlet on women and alcoholism, sort of not really wanting to be accosted by someone and he does just that. He slams into the seat next to me, starts asking me all sorts of not-so-subtle questions about myself (like a speed dating event), and so now I'm getting it. Plus, a week earlier, that nice gal I've been throwing under the bus the last day or so told me about the 13th step, so I was armed and aware. The guy really annoyed me throughout that meeting, leaning in close to my ear to make comments while the speakers were up, etc. Here's a quick lesson: even under the best and most appropriate circumstances this guy would guy would have a little trouble getting a date. But I digress. I see him at yet another meeting last week, I was walking past him with a newly acquired gait of confidence when said "yo, come here." I looked at him, walked over and said quizzically, "yo?" Anyway, he actually said to me, when this is over come with me, I live right down the block and I have those scallops for you (he's a fisherman and we had spoke of fresh fish at the last meeting). I just looked at him, made some breakaway pleasantries and indeed broke away.

Pretty outrageous stuff. His Dad, by the way, is the Lion of AA, white-haired, noble, etc. I should say something to him about his son. Anyway, this is not of concern because he was so lacking in his approach, but perhaps sponsors should tell their proteges, particularly the younger ones, about this. But at this stage in my life no man is going to take sobriety (or anything else) away from me. But that's now. 25 years old, perhaps a different story.
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Postby Susan68 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:07 pm

tim-one wrote:However, I am VERY CAREFUL with my words, looks, hugs, et.al. in any AA related situation. The guys I know are also very aware that any attention toward women can easily be construed as wrongful intent.


I think this goes both ways. I grew up with 4 brothers and thus feel very comfortable approaching a guy, talking to him, whatever. However, this is often misconstrued as romantic interest. Used to make me mad (is he KIDDING?!), but I'm trying to take it less personally when it happens.
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Postby tim-one » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:30 am

Susan,

But at this stage in my life no man is going to take sobriety (or anything else) away from me.


PERFECT! You got it, girl! Nobody's got NUTHIN to do with your sobriety. (Double negatives are legal in Texas. Not undoing the first one, the second one is for double-emphasis. :wink: )

Thanks for sharing your experience. It's important to let us know this stuff.

As I said before, it does work both ways. And newcomers are so vulnerable and afraid to lash out at an AAer thinking it's not "AApropos".

In one meeting, I saw such a thing happen. A guy was doing some girl exactly what you said. She said just loud enough for everyone to hear, "Leave me the hell alone. I am NOT going ANYWHERE with you!"

She was miffed. There IS nothing wrong with righteous anger.

The whole meeting stopped. Everyone stared at the guy. He walked out embarrased. Thank God he kept coming back. But, from then on, he walked much more humbly and never even stood close to a woman again ... in an AA setting, I'm sure. I reckon he got sponsorated.

One can also tell her sponsor (or another well-sober woman) who can "legally" tell his sponsor without "tattling" or "gossiping". But, you're right ... newbies are stiffled by AA decorum. After all, everything is MY Step 4 fault. Right? :roll:
______________
Gotta share this:

The day after I jumped into this discussion, I was giving my ex-sponsor-now-best-bud a ride home from group. Great, sensitive guy. Exemplary of AA decorum.

Leaving the parking lot, he said, "MAN, that girl is HOT!" Perfectly alright to me. We were just guys in a car free to be guys.

*I knew her. She'd checked into rehab a week before I was thrown out. Gorgeous tall slender girl with naturally white-blond hair. 6'-2". This is one o'them I've never even shaken her hand or even talked to - afraid of myself. No more than a smile and a passing nod.

One day we ran into each other at the coffee pot. She said, "You've got such nice hair." (Awrite. You started it, darlin'.) Told her "Thanks. It's the only good thing my daddy ever did for me :D "

Had to say something now. So I told the truth. "I gotta tell you. It's SO nice for an old guy to see a tall girl stand up straight, shoulders back. Stately, regal, lovely." I've never talked to her again. See her all the time.*

ANYWAY, back to the guy-car ... So I said to my bud, "Isn't she gorgeous?! She's so graceful. Look how she walks so confident and peaceful. Just lovely. She's a lawyer, ya know." (I pause)

He's doing that tilted-head nod with the knowing expression on his face. He's watching her walk by with different eyes.

I continue, "And she's SO FRIGN HOT!!"

We busted out laughing.

As we're drying our eyes, he said, "Thanks, brother. This stuff is a whole nuther perspective, aint it?

When we got serious, I told him about this discussion. We had a great long AA talk about it.

So, thanks, girls. We need you. You're not our problem. We are. We can only hope we don't become a problem for you. "There is a solution". Let's work it together. K?

Bless your sober hearts.

Love,
Tim1
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Postby tim-one » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:28 am

Hi, Debbie.

Good, conscientious work.

Maybe you should dress up and stand on a street corner whistling a tune with your hands behind your back. I bet lotsa folks would come up and say, "Hey, you're one o'them sober alcoholics, aincha? How can I get some o'that?"

I get the impression from many that that's what they think attraction is. It happens that it's merely lack of promotion.

You posted the AA APPROVED (Dallas :wink: ) P.I. method of making AA information available. No preaching. Literature is picked up by anyone who is interested in the subject. So what's the problem? :wink:

I also believe, as "I have come to", that HP's of all kinds grant special grace and power to those in your situation who are willing and walking by faith that they are doing the right thing. So what's the problem? :wink: :wink:

I, just me, I think you're doing exactly the right thing. Getting the word out to anyone interested. Just "here I am if you're wondering". Perfect.

Stop worrying and do it, you faithful warrior you. One alcoholic stepping out of hell will appreciate that you ignored your detractors and did the next right thing.

But .... uh .... you'd better get ready for God to take your willingness seriously. Eat your AA Wheaties! I'm thinkin you might be a busy girl soon.

Keep up the faith and the good undead work. :D

Love,
Tim1
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