HELP- poison in the room

[heuychief]

How do we deal with a woman who uses very profane language and calls all the members in the room lairs if they say they have found their higher power and are happy.
We had a very young man with little time at the meeting,and for him to sit there and hear the POISON from this woman is not right.Isn't the new person the one we should be helping?
She goes to other meetings and bad mouths our group and calls us lying MF"s.
I have turned the other cheek and prayed about this.I have talked to some of the group members and they don't seem to have a problem with her.I feel the meeting has been taken over by a very sick and angry person who has 14 years sobriety and is lost.
I value my hour with my group,I go there to give something and take something with me.I have been leaving the meeting upset and angry.I know we have lost at least one member because of this and I wonder what to do.
HELP !

[Dallas]

When some of the early AA groups approached Bill W., and asked these kinds of questions -- his reply to them was, that King Alcohol would be the one that would deal w/ these people.

I thoroughly understand the problem. Over the last 25 years I've had contact w/ too many of these types that you mention. They run from meeting to meeting seeking to destroy members and groups as a result of their mental sickness. They say that they have been sober for many years and what it appears to me is: they are a very sick alcoholic that NEEDS a drink.

Most people do not want what they have. They usually don't have sponsees and when they do have them they don't have them for long because the sponsees can't stay sober.

Most often, the way I personally deal w/ them is to make comments like: "If you want what she's got -- do what she does." Or, maybe "She's a good example of how sick an alcoholic can get without a drink. Some seem to get worse and never better -- regardless of how long they stay sober." Naturally, I DON'T offer that as a suggestion for what you to do... some in the group will tell you that you're mean.

I remember one individual that was new struggling and that I was trying to help. She put her cell phone on speaker phone when Mi###e called her. And, I listened as Mi###e said everything she could possibly say to this woman to try and get her frustrated, depressed and returned to drinking. When I'd mention it to other women in the group, or men, they acted as though "well IF it is true -- it's none of my business, I don't want to rock the boat and someone not like me." These same members, if they had their ears opened during a meeting would hear Mi###e share and brag about how many AA's, men and women, that she drove back to drinking. She too, claimed to have between 13 to 15 yrs sober. She'd share how when she was new she had slept with most of the guys in the meetings -- while her new husband and at least one of her ex-husbands sat in the same meeting.

Unfortunately, as my experience showed, there wasn't much I could personally do about it.... other than to say "She's a liar and if you're sick enough to want what she's got -- go to any lengths to get it." The last I heard... This particular lady is still going around doing the same thing that she always did. The difference now -- she talks about being on her high powered anti-depressants that her doctor gives her and talks about how one medication is better than another medication.

You might try a personalized version of the Serenity Prayer on her.

I don't believe the Steps suggest or require that we pray FOR other people. We ask only for God's will for US and to grant US the power to carry out His will for us. However, a few months ago, my sponsor suggested that I pray for a mentally and emotionally sick sister who had done all sorts of things that decent human beings don't do. It made me want to puke (and I told him so) when he suggested that "I pray for her to get well and to do the right thing." I did it ONLY because my sponsor suggested that I do it -- and I knew that if I tried to negotiate w/ him, I'd have to find a new sponsor.

The end result was: She got well for a day and did one right deed, for my deceased mother. My mother had wanted to be buried, in a coffin, w/ my deceased father. My sister, who was hiding my mother in nursing homes and wouldn't let the family know where she was and did everything she could to keep our mother away from being contacted or checked-on by us. The moment my mother died, she had a company from Arizona, to rush out, pick up my mothers remains and cremate them. Typically, the company just dumps the ashes of the bodies they cremate -- and my sister had a momentary "change of heart" to at least have my mothers ashes buried w/ my father.

Rest assured, the sick one's are not only in AA. You'll find them in grocery stores, churches, schools, and other places, too.

My one suggestion is to read from towards the bottom of pg 132 through pg 133 of the Big Book. There is some great instructions there on how to deal w/ ALL problems.

Best wishes.

Dallas

[heuychief]

Thank you so much for the thoughts.
With prayer and meditation and working step 11 with my sponsor,talking to my other fellows,I turned this situation into another learning experience in my journey of life.
It showed me how very fragile my balance in sobriety really is.It showed me my God was there all the time,I just had to let him help me.
I got through this situation without needing to make amends.
It will make me wiser and closer to my higher power.
Monday I will have One year of sobriety.

[Toddy]

Patience thought, prayer and meditation and seeking counsel all helped to show you the next right right action all without sacrificing your own serenity.

They should right a book that teaches this stuff, wait, never mind.

Well done huey chief !

Toddy

[Toast]

Hi huey chief,

Tell her if she cant say something constructive then she'd be better to say nothing at all. Everyone has to be given the same chance she got when she 1st came into AA.

Just goes to show that everyone is an example in AA!

[Dallas]

I remember back when to my first time reading Step 10, in the 12 & 12 book, where Bill wrote:

"It is a spiritual axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us. "

BEFORE I could read any further, where he explains it -- I went into a mental disagreement rage! My head played it out as: "You really suck on this idea Bill, that's just NOT the case in ALL situations!"

When I finally settled down enough to finish reading and criticizing what he wrote, I got to the following sentences in the same paragraph...

"If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the wrong also. But are there no exceptions to this rule? What about "justifiable" anger? If somebody cheats us, aren't we entitled to be mad? Can't we be properly angry with self-righteous folk? For us of A.A. these are dangerous exceptions. We have found that justified anger ought to be left to those better qualified to handle it."

This concept helped me much later on in sobriety with other AA's.

Can't I be properly angry (or disturbed) with or about some other AA that is doing damage to other AA's?

Yes. I probably could be "properly angry or disturbed"... but the problem is: the feeling is poison. And, it's like me wanting to poison the other person -- and I end up dying, or drunk, or ineffective -- because of the poison. If I'm feeling the poison, I've poisoned myself.

OK. Great idea, Bill W., but, just HOW CAN I CHANGE... for the better, and so that it doesn't disturb me?

Well. Bill mentioned that above the sentence that disturbed me. "A spot check personal inventory."

How do I do that?

For me, I go back to the original format of how Step 4 is outlined. And, since my "justifiable disturbance" is most similar to anger and resentment... I do a Resentment part of the inventory on the actions of the other person.

Who's ticking me off and disturbing me? (I write down their name).
What did they do that ticked me off? (Their bad actions in AA).
Which parts of my self, did it seem like were harmed or threatened?
How did it affect me?
Which of MY character defects actually cause me to feel the way I felt?
What and how could I do it differently?

What I always seemed to end up with is: My disturbance is a result of:

MY Selfishness: (I WANT them -- to act differently, act better, act the way I THINK they should act, to do what I THINK they should do the way that I THINK it should be done).

MY Self-centeredness: (to do what I THINK they should do the way that I THINK it should be done)

MY Fear: I'm AFRAID they are doing to hurt AA or others.

And, what do I do about it? MY being inconsiderate... to the offender.

OK. Great! I understand that... but HOW can I CHANGE the way I see it, so that it doesn't disturb me?

Well... I can start by asking MYSELF, "Is it possible... that the offending person is very spiritually sick?" (Like, "Duh Dallas? Look in the mirror and name all the people that are not affected by a spiritual illness!)

So, I ask myself... "Can I help them?" My answer: Probably not.

Well... what can I do then? I CAN ask God, "Can you help ME... to be kind to them? And, to be cheerful when being kind to them?"

I'm NOT asking God to fix them... or to help them. (Whew! Relief! It would be dishonest of me to tell God that I wanted Him to do something GOOD for them... when what I really want is for Him to get revenge on them!)

What I AM asking God for is: to help me by fixing me.

And, I ask Him to remove my selfishness, my self-centeredness, my being inconsiderate... AND to remove MY fear.

Dallas

NOTE: That usually fixes me and the problem is removed from me. But, "what if it isn't totally removed?" Then, I do a FEAR part of the personal inventory, and that finishes it up for me.

Well... "what IF I did that, and it didn't work?" Then, what that means is: I DIDN'T really work it -- LIKE the Big Book instructs me to... so I go back and review all the instructions in the book and see what I left out.

[heuychief]

Being Right Is Not Enough


Here lie the remains of William Jay
Who died maintaining his right of way,
He was right, dead right, as he sped along
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

[Toast]

Like it heuychief,

At the end of the day we've all had enough hard times so we come to AA for a bit of peace, a place of safety if you like. And no loud mouth A' hole has the right to take that from us!

If they cant behave then someone should have the courage to tell them to stay away until they can. Our guidlines here tell us if lots of people are staying away from a meeting because of one nut-job then the nut-job has to go!

[Then, and only then]

I used to feel that it was my Gid given duty to shut mess carrying full of crap members in the rooms. They had no clue about the program, they are ignorant, rigid, no social skill what so ever, immature, most of times plainly stupid and dumb monkies. Then I found another breed, non alcoholics. They could not be alcoholics. I am the pure hopeless kind, you know, a real alcoholics.

Then, not too long ago, I realized I am turning into one of them. My way or highway. Complete opposite of open mind! Out of my inflated ego and fear of drinking, I found myself not on the path, but I was the path! Who am I to judge? Am I powerful enough to help and be responsible to influence the new comers impressions of AA? I am here to buy, not to sell. I could not even help myself!

We all have alcoholic ears and eyes; we don't and can't see or hear until we do. It is pointless to argue with others how they should practice. Genuine humility, am I correcting others for my glory or theirs? Their program still belong to them and their HP. I am here to clean my side of the street. HP does not need any of my help to straighten them on the path.

We say about calling on each others BS as if it is our responsibility as a fellow travelers. But is it really? Does it work?

Everyone bring some to the table. Including you and I, and maybe them too. Maybe the best thing I can do is to show some kind tolerances and witness HPs handiwork. I can not afford to loose my sobriety in the mix. Let him whirl. I am saying this to convince myself. Because I think I know.

[Toast]

Never confuse tolerance with suffering fools gladly. In the past I've made that mistake to my peril thinking i was doing it the AA way when i wasn't and it was me that paid the price, not the idiots who were way out of order!