- Why do THEY get mad… when I talk about ME?

Why do THEY get mad… when I talk about ME?




Topics related to AA Meetings - and alcohol addiction recovery

Postby JR » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:06 am

BB pg. 66:

"It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. To the precise extent that we permit these, do we squander the hours that might have been worthwhile. But with the alcoholic, whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience, this business of harboring resentment is infinitely grave. For then we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the spirit. The insanity of alcohol returns and we drink again. And with us, to drink is to die.

If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the sudden rage were not for us. Anger is the dubious luxury of normal men, but for us alcoholics it is poison."

Your sponsor said that she thinks that you do actually get angry, but you call it "hurt, upset, sad, insecure, guilty, shameful, scared, etc." Maybe your sponsor is right. When I get angry I don't get rageful or violent or loud either. I get quiet and pitiful. It doesn't mean resentment isn't there. Alcoholism is a disease of denial. Maybe (and I'm just guessing here) your sponsor wants you to admit that you are angry so that you can put it in the framework of the steps by dealing with the resentment the way the BB says.

I grew up in an angry, violent home as well and I never express my anger the way my parents did, but it doesn't mean that I don't experience anger in my own way which seems alot like yours "hurt, upset, sad, insecure, scared" thats me to a 'T' when I am disturbed.

The absence of resentment and anger isn't hurt, upset, sad, scared or insecure . . . . . it is peace. When we are at peace about a thing, we know we have done the steps on the thing that we are distrubed about. Until I know peace, I know I haven't done the work.

I am so sorry that you don't get to be in your grandson's life right now in the way that you would like. Remember, your grandson has a Higher Power also. A woman in my home group is going through a similar problem with her grandbaby and there is so much pain in her eyes when she speaks about it you just want to hold her and let her cry it all out. It sucks being powerless over other peoples bitterness and revenge especially when an innocent young one is harmed. But, the program of alcoholics anonymous promises peace in knowing that everything is in the hands of TPTB and sometimes that must be sufficient.

"Believe more deeply. Hold your face up to the Light, even though for the moment you do not see." Bill W.

Love Each Day,

JR
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Postby Rusty Zipper » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:34 am

C , sadened to here about your Grandson. C, i too have. or most times had, a problem with anger. sad, insecure, fearfull, hurt, but not anger. when useing, different, when i went off, it was a bomb. the Dr Jeckle bit. in recovery, rarely get mad. in fact, something came up a long time ago. a for me, something major. i not get mad. some of my best friends in recovery, and the Winners in my book said . if iy was me, i would be a scream'n. they say, i cover up, denial, keep it in. well C, i did feel the sadness you mentioned. the hurt, the insecurites. i thought about what they said, took a look, and my conclusion. i not pissed at this person. i couldn't be angry. what would i gain. a breif adrenaline rush, or high? ... i understand, i love that one unconditionaly. no demands and the like. did a lot'o pray'n on it. i got tremendous Spiritual growth from it. time marched on. then one day i got a little "Ra, ra, ra, ring on my cel. it was that person people said to be angry at. glad i wasnt. you might of guessed by now, yep, it my recovery buddie. because i looked for the positives, in the negatives. didn't try to run the show, direct it, manipulate it. and as JR, found that inner piece. the all is as it should! ... the results. i have something so wonderfull in my life now. ty TPTB! it was a case of, when my will conformed with TPTB's i believe. have a good night all, and all good wishes, xxxooo RZ :wink:
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Postby Dallas » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:53 am

When I was newly sober... my Sponsor had me start working on Step 4, and said that I had to start by making a list of all the people I was angry or resentful at.

I told him "Geez, I'm just so happy to have a second chance at sobriety, I'm not angry or resentful at anyone. I don't have anyone I can put on the list." I really, genuinely felt that way.

My Sponsor said "Well, in that case, I want you to make a list of every person you have ever known or met and we'll start there." I said "Even if I'm not angry or resentful at them?" And, he said, "Yep."

He said, "When you're finished with the list of people names... everyone that you've ever known, I want you to start on a list of places, things, institutions, principles, or anything else that you don't like."

"Gees! What an order!"

Guess what? I learned that I was shot through and through with anger and resentment... and didn't even know it!

Now... "that's me and my experience... and has nothing to do with anyone else!" :lol:

Crickit, you're really lucky to have no anger to deal with!!! I wish I could have been that lucky.

I do a fairly complete, daily, Step 10, 11, and 12... in my opinion. :lol:

Not too long ago, I had some depressing stuff come up that I just couldn't shake off. It was sure eating my lunch! So, I started all the way back with Step 1, and by the time I got in the middle of a Step 4, "new list of resentments" and I discovered that I had 32 resentments that I had been carrying around... even in my most spiritual and happy moments... and I wasn't even aware that they were there... until I started digging.

Half way through my list, I was laughing at myself and the depression was gone! Yep. I followed it all the way through from Step 5 to 12. Wanted to see if I discovered any other problems I was not seeing!

Dallas
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Postby Rusty Zipper » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:05 am

Dallas, how ya??? and me buddy, ya did it to me again. was not think'n about the places, thin's, the technology, institutions, motor vehicle lines, the mailbox, the neighbors wild roses thet scratch the chitz out of me when i try to get in my car. i see da picture Dallas. got caught up in da people thin, lol. ty again Mr BB, for point'n this out. stil, for me, i think that the people thins are the glaring ones. dont think i can find some peace, and serenity in pull'n thorn's outa my ass, but i can shure see the beauty in um, when i look at them. nighters Dallas, xo PC :wink:
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Postby Angel » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:39 am

When people do things to the nature as all of you are talking about..I just have to remember that we're not all in the rooms because we're well.."some are sicker than others" How do we handle this?? pg. 66 (bottom) to pg.67 BB; Tells us all about it..Thanks..Angel :)
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Postby crickit » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:10 pm

When I get angry I don't get rageful or violent or loud either. I get quiet and pitiful. It doesn't mean resentment isn't there. Alcoholism is a disease of denial. Maybe (and I'm just guessing here) your sponsor wants you to admit that you are angry so that you can put it in the framework of the steps by dealing with the resentment the way the BB says
.

This is kind of what my sponsor say. She says I take on too much of what others inventory is. I am to ready to take on blame when I should actually have a resentment. After doing my forth I am very cautious of my resentments but have gone too far the other way and taken the blame instead. Even when doing my forth and found the resentments I had been harbouring I found that my action each time was to 'run away' from it. I never ever dealt with the wrongs that had done to me and I guess I'm still doing it today but instead of running from it and holding on to the resentment I turn it around and take the blame instead so I can still move on.

Guess what? I learned that I was shot through and through with anger and resentment... and didn't even know it!


When my sponsor pointed out times that I had every right to be angry I shrugged it off saying 'well there was nothing I could do about it' the same way there is nothing I can do about seeing my grandson exept now I am taking on guilt as a way of dealing with the resentment. She says when I can actually be angry for what my daughter-in-law is doing I will then be truely free of the resentment. So my sponsor is having a hard time explaining it any better or I'm having a hard time understanding it LOL. So I guess what I'm not getting is turning that resentment into healthy anger instead of running away from a bad situation or taking on the other persons inventory and feeling responsible for their actions. I guess I think that if I actually let myself feel angry I will explode. As a care giver for 15 years I was able to identify wrongs done to my clients and was able to defend them in a calm rational way. I worked with adults with special needs and was constantly trying to uphold their rights as individuals. Why am I unable to do this for myself. Where do I start.

I've been trying to do my 8th step and everytime I go over it with my sponsor she says 'you have every right to react the way you did after what they did to you' but the way I see it I still did harm by reacting the way I did.

Here I go with examples again so bare with me LOL.

One of the people I had harmed was my mother. I had caused her so much grief because I was such a rebellious teen. I ended up running away from home when I was 15 which caused her alot of worry. My sponsor knows why I left home when I did which was because of the abuse that was going on by my alcoholic father. I didn't know how to deal with it so I got out. She had pointed out that my mother knew about the abuse yet did nothing to protect me which led me no alternate but to leave. She pointed out that I should not take on any guilt for what happened in my home and that I had every right to be angry with what went on yet I'm left with the guilt of upseting my mother so much and adding to the stress she was already dealing with. My mother passed away when I was 24 and my sponsor thinks I am left with feelings that have never been dealt with and because my mother is dead I don't feel comfortable feeling anger towards her so I've turned it in to guilt.

She says it's more or less the same thing with my son. He has treated me very poorly for the last 5-6 years (long story) but I was always there for him to help pick up the pieces no matter how difficult. It is easier to feel the guilt than to be angy with my own son for turning against me.

So how does one practice being angry. How does one seperate what you've done to harm others when the initial harm was against you. Is there actually a happy medium between feeling justified anger and unreasonable guilt.

Thank you all for your imput because I think I've been driving my sponsor crazy with this one. I think she is at the point that she wants to do something to make me angry just so I can feel what it's like to be angry with just cause LOL.

BB
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Criket

Postby trinity » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:29 am

Hey, I just gotta say, your grandkids will want to know about you and unfortunately for your daughter in law, they'll resent her for not allowing them the chance to know you. My parents got divorced when I was 3 and I didn't really see my dad. The last time I saw him I was 7. Then the day after I got sober, my dad called me...after 20 years!!!
I felt like I was on the Oprah show or something. Now, we've been talking for a little over a year and I found out that he used to send us stuff and my mom threw the letters and presents away. I was real angry, but fortunately, I began working my steps immediately and I learned how to process and seal with my resentments.
I have accepted that my mom was trying to protect me; my dad had made a lot of empty promises. When I made amends to my mom about my resentments, she said she understood and did have regrets about not allowing us the option of knowing my father.
I have so much to be grateful for. I've gotten to know my father but even better, I love and appreciate my step dad so much more. Isn't sobriety great?
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Postby crickit » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:07 pm

Thanks Trinity, I guess that's what I'm hoping for. That my grandson will eventually want to see me. Unfortunately my daughter in law will have to explain to him why he can't see both of his grandmother. I will never understand why a person would shut out someone would use their children as pawns. That's the one thing I promised I wouldn't do when I divorced the first time. He may not have been a good husband but he was my childrens father.

The reasons my daughter in law is using against me is my past. I guess she forgets my son has the same past. They actually lived with me for 1 1/2 years up until my grandson was born. I was good enough then LOL. What really hurts is that my son has turned against me too. Sometimes I think he is doing it just to keep peace with her. (she has run home to daddy with her son 3 times over arguements about me). It's hard not to feel pity for the both of them.

Anyway..It's not up to me to judge. My present husband just started seeing his daughter after 14 years. His x wife had kept his daughter and 2 sons away from him. Then his daughter started searching for him when she turned 16 and now they see each other (that actually happened when he was 2 weeks into his own recover...the promises really do start to happen). He now sees her and his youngest son. The oldest son is still holding alot of resentment but hopefully he will realize that it wasn't his dad's fault.

So I guess I've babbled on long enough.

BB
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we`re not quite well yet!

Postby recoveredbygrace » Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:19 am

well,maybe we are all just not quite well yet.

We alcoholics tend to live defensively and guarded sometimes,especially when the "ISM" is a active force in us.
Besides we hear what we hear,not nessacerly what is being said,because sometimes we have those darn obsessions of the mind!Our book does tell us we cannot tell the truth from the false ..........

maybe,just maybe,today, we all are doing the best we can???
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Postby Dallas » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:03 am

Hey Recovered!!! Thanks for sharing that!!!

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