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Postby november6 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:20 pm

This is all really interesting to read.. speed or no speed is one of those AA questions I have had so many different experiances with it is almost too overwhelming for me to choose a "side"! more posts here please!! :D
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Postby Rain » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:20 am

I am astonished, flattered and thankful for the response Dallas. Thanks


Speed is a weird question for me; I don't think I get why being in pain is better than well, getting better. My attitude is fix it! fix it now! I'm in pain aaaggghhh! I can't kill the pain with booze, I'll do anything to make it go awaaaay!

Maybe in addition to being an alcoholic I am also a big weenie. This is very possible.

When I got to AA I WANTED to get better, and ASAP. I don't know why anyone else was here, but I didn't make it to AA because I felt dandy and things were going well in my life. I'm just sayin'



Also, Dallas brought up in another post the gift of desperation, and it really is a gift. The motivation of pain and the moment of clarity when we see that we need to do anything to become sober is a window of opportunity that won't last forever. Meeting attendance and a bit of relief might just bring the amount of compliance and fear that keep the newcomer from doing the steps, and getting what they can out of the program. It's sad to see them content to drift in the rooms, and eventually drift out of the rooms and out of the program without ever really having been a all twelve-step doing, in order, as writen, spiritual experience having, passing it along AA member.
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Postby Dallas » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:05 pm

Great to hear from you early today, Rain! You just gave me a big fix of the good stuff to help me throughout my day!!!

I guess, maybe, those like me, have to die before they can live. I had to get so hopeless -- that even I could see and admit and know -- that I had crossed that invisible line into a hopeless state of mind and body. I couldn't live with it and I couldn't live without it. I had zero belief and zero faith that it would work for me. I was just trying to hang on to anything I could until sobriety killed me. I didn't want to drink again, so that when the alcoholism killed me, it would have killed me from staying sober rather than from drinking it.

I was thinking of this as I was reviewing the Dr.'s Opinion, and Chapter 2 and 3 early this morning. We hear a lot of air about how AA is not as effective today as it was in the 1939 and early 40's. I don't believe it. The program hasn't changed at all. The program is in the BB, and regardless of all the attempts to change it -- the only part that has changed is the stories in the back of the book.

The Fellowship is what has changed. Not, the program. In the late 30's & 40's it only had us hopeless chronics who had to grab onto it like men and women that were drowning. Because we were! The Traditions were a good thing -- but, there was a difference in the long form of Tradition 3, and the short form of it. As Bill mentioned in the 12 & 12, they went to the short form, hoping to help some other alcoholics to raise their bottom, so that they didn't have to get as bad off as we got. And, this was good, too. It started helping the younger people come in that were smarter and could see that they had already become alcoholic. And, of course, it helped others to come in earlier -- even if they did go back out again.

The main problem, as I see it, is: Bill had wrote about the three different types of drinkers in Chapter 3. They were probably each a different type of alcoholic, or at least a prospective alcoholic -- but it included those that could still quit. If they had good enough reason, they could quit. If they had good enough reason, and just went to meetings and got busy -- they could stay dry. And, then there was the other type. My type. :lol: I could go to five meetings a day, make 12 Step calls, volunteer for anything and everything -- and still not recover -- without taking the Steps.

So, the different types end up in the meetings together -- comparing each other. We look at one person and figure we're worse off than them, but then we look at the other person and figure we weren't as bad off as them, so we start thinking! :lol: And, it isn't long until we start acting like we're not real alcoholics and convincing ourselves that "well! when I get these other problems in my life solved -- then I'll have time for AA, and meetings and a sponsor and taking the Steps!" :lol: :lol: We see it all the time. Like an accident looking for a place to happen, we have a mentally and spiritually relapsed alcoholic that's just in the waiting stage until the next binge. They think, and think and think and think. Next thing they know, they're over the brink -- with a half-empty drink in their hands. And, unfortunately, they sit in the bar until it closes whining about "how AA didn't work for them!" :lol:

Dallas
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Postby Rain » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:47 am

Oh man, Dallas can I quote you?
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Postby Dallas » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:10 am

Good morning Rain! Thanks for sharing your presence that I'd find so early this morning! I gotta be careful! I could get addicted to this! :lol:

My meditation and study last night and early this morning? Can you guess it? -- Step One! You betcha! Alkie's of my type will never learn too much or practice too much of Step One!!! :lol: It's only when we don't learn enough, or stop learning about, and stop practicing Step 1, that we head into trouble!

Why is that? I used to think Step 1 is just the kindergarten stuff! Why can't I spend my time trying to impress people about all kinds of profound theories and wisdom and speaking in tongues... with little flames of fire on my head, talking about Spiritual stuff???? :lol: :lol:

Two of the reasons, as I see it:

a. Step 1, is the foundation of our sobriety and recovery. If I wake up in the morning and my knees are wobbly -- and the foundation underneath me is shaky or isn't solid... I'm at a huge risk of falling before I can take any more steps! So, for me... my first Step of the day, is always most important! Once my first step is solid, and if it is solid -- I can securely and safely move on to the Next Steps!

b. We read it over and over and over and over again... "The spiritual life is not a theory -- we have to live it!" I believe this to be an Ominous Warning! Us alkies love to think! Give us something to think about and we'll think about it to the point of getting high on thinking! :lol:

Next, give us something to think about, that's abstract... where we can't see it and know very little about it -- and we'll become experts in 5 minutes or less on the topic! And, that leads to more ... thinking. :wink:

We seem to forget -- that it was our thinking -- that got us into trouble the first place! If my thinking hadn't been so screwed up -- I would have quit drinking after my very first trial experience with a drink! :lol: And, if my thinking had have been better -- I would have found real solutions to cope with my problems rather than trying to do it with alcohol!

Yes. I've taken the Steps. Sanity has been restored (today). What is sanity? The ability to think straight. To think sound thoughts. And, what's the most sound thought I can have?

a. I'm alcoholic.
b. It's not safe to spend my time alone thinking! :lol:
c. I read pg 42, in BB:

"“Then they outlined the spiritual answer and program
of action
which a hundred of them had followed successfully."

The facts are: the only thing I will ever know for sure about the Spiritual
Answer is: God is. He can -- IF I will. End of discussion for me. :lol: Now, let me move on to the Program of Action because that is something that I can learn about, know about, and most importantly do something about! Take actions now!

You see, an alkie of my type can not afford to wait to "take the next right action." Why? Because I'll get hooked on my thinking about it and never get it taken -- until the next right action is now the next wrong action! :lol:

Solution? I've got to take the Right Now Action -- Right Now! I've got to be Into Action and not Into Thinking!

Step 1??? It's ALWAYS the Right Now Action!

Dallas
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Postby junebug » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:01 pm

Dallas wrote:Good morning Rain! Thanks for sharing your presence that I'd find so early this morning! I gotta be careful! I could get addicted to this! :lol:

My meditation and study last night and early this morning? Can you guess it? -- Step One! You betcha! Alkie's of my type will never learn too much or practice too much of Step One!!! :lol: It's only when we don't learn enough, or stop learning about, and stop practicing Step 1, that we head into trouble!

Why is that? I used to think Step 1 is just the kindergarten stuff! Why can't I spend my time trying to impress people about all kinds of profound theories and wisdom and speaking in tongues... with little flames of fire on my head, talking about Spiritual stuff???? :lol: :lol: Super helpful. I am an EXPERT in THINKING. :lol: thanks, Dallas

Two of the reasons, as I see it:

a. Step 1, is the foundation of our sobriety and recovery. If I wake up in the morning and my knees are wobbly -- and the foundation underneath me is shaky or isn't solid... I'm at a huge risk of falling before I can take any more steps! So, for me... my first Step of the day, is always most important! Once my first step is solid, and if it is solid -- I can securely and safely move on to the Next Steps!

b. We read it over and over and over and over again... "The spiritual life is not a theory -- we have to live it!" I believe this to be an Ominous Warning! Us alkies love to think! Give us something to think about and we'll think about it to the point of getting high on thinking! :lol:

Next, give us something to think about, that's abstract... where we can't see it and know very little about it -- and we'll become experts in 5 minutes or less on the topic! And, that leads to more ... thinking. :wink:

We seem to forget -- that it was our thinking -- that got us into trouble the first place! If my thinking hadn't been so screwed up -- I would have quit drinking after my very first trial experience with a drink! :lol: And, if my thinking had have been better -- I would have found real solutions to cope with my problems rather than trying to do it with alcohol!

Yes. I've taken the Steps. Sanity has been restored (today). What is sanity? The ability to think straight. To think sound thoughts. And, what's the most sound thought I can have?

a. I'm alcoholic.
b. It's not safe to spend my time alone thinking! :lol:
c. I read pg 42, in BB:

"“Then they outlined the spiritual answer and program
of action
which a hundred of them had followed successfully."

The facts are: the only thing I will ever know for sure about the Spiritual
Answer is: God is. He can -- IF I will. End of discussion for me. :lol: Now, let me move on to the Program of Action because that is something that I can learn about, know about, and most importantly do something about! Take actions now!

You see, an alkie of my type can not afford to wait to "take the next right action." Why? Because I'll get hooked on my thinking about it and never get it taken -- until the next right action is now the next wrong action! :lol:

Solution? I've got to take the Right Now Action -- Right Now! I've got to be Into Action and not Into Thinking!

Step 1??? It's ALWAYS the Right Now Action!

Dallas
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