- Does AA have anything to do with – relationships?

Does AA have anything to do with – relationships?




A discussion of topics related to relationships in recovery and treatment

Does AA have anything to do with – relationships?

Postby Dallas » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:58 am

Does AA have anything to do with – relationships?

Am I Accepting or Changing things I need to change?


You're not seeing double! You may have read this in Meeting Topics under the topic of Am I Accepting or Changing things I need to change?

As I was thinking about what I’m about to write I wasn’t sure if it would belong in the category of “AA Meeting Topicsâ€
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Re: Does AA have anything to do with – relationships?

Postby garden variety » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:52 pm

Excellent thoughts Dallas - thanks for drawing yet another beautiful and mysterious illustration of peculiar AA "Paradoxology".

How is it that I can say "AA has no opinion on outside issues" such as boyfriend/girlfriend "relationships", yet I can agree with Dallas 100% that ...
[quote="Dallas"][b]My next thought was “AA has everything to do with and about relationships!â€
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Postby Dallas » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:46 pm

Paul wrote:Here's another paradox I've also realized. The things that are essential are most often invisible. The relationships I have with those "intangible" and invisible things I listed above will ultimately become the blueprint of all physical and tangible relationships I seek and become a part of.

That is deep, Dallas. It's slippery too. It's almost like grabbing and holding a puff of steam, or grabbing at the wind.



I understand. And, SO true! Paul, you did a good job at describing something that's indescribable! :wink:

I've often wondered if -- it's nearly impossible to use words to explain truth. Especially spiritual truth.

If you're like me, you try and try and try and try to describe it... and it gets across to the other person... but, as you read it... you think.. "naw... it's more than that! how can I say it?" What are the words that I'm trying to find to describe it? :wink:

Spiritual truth. Like God. Words cannot adequately describe.... no matter how hard we try.

Perhaps, it's because the totality of spiritual truth could possibly be beyond our understanding. And, all we get is a shadow of the truth... and we try to explain the shadow that we see, and feel and experience. Words are unable to describe the Divine Majesty of it all.

It’s kind of like love. Like when you’re really in love… and you want to describe it, but the words escape the efforts to describe.

BTW… Did you forget??? You have a relationship with me, too Paul!!!
The Fellowship of Humanity.
The Fellowship of Brothers.
The Fellowship of AA.
The Fellowship of Friends.
The Fellowship of the Spirit!

I love you, Bro!!

Dallas
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Postby ccs » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:54 pm

Hey Paul its nice to read a real Garden Variety post seems like I havnt been hearing much from you lately and I miss you how have you been ???

I aslo luv it when Dallas and you get together and share your thoughts and hearts with us I have learned so much from you both since I`ve been here
sometimes when I`m reading one of your posts (both of you)
I feel like you are talking straight to me its like Dallas says are you reading my mind ?? then he says its the fellowship of the spirit

your right guys this is deep deep stuff your sharing here you two describe the indescribable so well ! thats how I know it comes straight from your HEARTS !!!!

sorry to embarrass you guys but I want to be like you when I grow up :D :wink:

LUV YA both thanks for sharing your hearts with me today
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Postby Dallas » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:38 pm

:oops: :oops: :oops:

Cessie... you are the inspiration for us. We wouldn't be nothin' without you! It's you and the others that keep us going! Left to ourselves and our own devices... well... I better not say that. Don't want to make Paul mad! He's a big guy!!! And, I may not be able to run fast enough!!! :lol:

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Postby angel143 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:09 pm

Dallas wrote:It’s kind of like love. Like when you’re really in love… and you want to describe it, but the words escape the efforts to describe.


Dallas....

Is that what love is? When you feel things but to describe it with mere words doesnt seem like enough?

Hmmmm....thats really good to know. That clears up a lot of things for me!

As always....thanks! :wink:
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Postby Dallas » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:46 am

Heather wrote:Dallas....

Is that what love is? When you feel things but to describe it with mere words doesnt seem like enough?

Hmmmm....thats really good to know. That clears up a lot of things for me!


Nope. That's not what I meant. Back to the drawing board?

Love is a verb. (For some it's a noun) For me it's a verb. It's an action word that describes my actions... not my feelings.

Love wasn't what I was referring to above... but since you asked:

a. Love is a verb that describes actions. As in "a Loving God". (A God that is doing divine Love.... because God is Love. And, God is doing what God does because that's what God is. And, it's also why it is so difficult to describe God. Our vocabulary probably isn't advanced enough in addition to our ability to use it -- if it was -- to describe God or our experience with God. Which is why some of us rely on a "God as we understand God. It is important to have an understanding. Understandings are the results of thoughts.

But, it's not always so easy to describe the contents of our thoughts with words. And, words... are the way that we express our thoughts.

Logos. "the Word"; "the Idea"; "the expressed Thought"; "Logic".

So, I can see how the idea that the Logos and God are One.... (as understood by some). And, if God is Love... Love is a spiritual quality of Action. How can you use words adequately enough to describe God? Spirit? Truth? Love? Logos?) (I believe that this is why in the Gospel of John, in the Bible, in Chapter 1, it starts similar to Genesis 1:1, of the Old Testement: "In the beginning God" ... and " "In the beginning was the Word (Logos)... and the Word... was with God... and was God"... and later on down the chapter, it explains that the Logos... was manifest in flesh... or God in the Flesh. Son of God / Son of Man).... "God's expression of Himself in the Flesh -- through the Word".

Enough of that though... just using it here for illustration and comment.

b. "Being in love", for me: Describes my state of being -- in the actions.
Example "In Him I live and walk and have my being" These are all actions that describe the active state of my being. Love describes the movement -- the action -- in association with my active state of being.

c. The feelings: Describe the environmental changes that are produced by the loving actions.

d. It is possible to love without feelings. Feelings are not the evidence of love -- feelings are the evidence of our thoughts about love. If we are doing Love without thinking about it -- it's likely we will be loving without feelings or emotions. However, once we start to "think about it"... we experience an environmental change within ourselves.

e. All of our feelings -- emotions -- are the result of our thinking. It's not possible to have a "feeling"... without having thoughts that are producing the feelings. Therefore, if we find a way of living -- that will control our thinking -- our thinking will change -- and we can be in control of the things that we feel (Emotions).

This is often why in AA we say that "feelings are not facts." Thoughts are not facts. Thoughts are the way that we express our ideas or perception of reality.

They (our thoughts) are like "a map of our reality"... "our map" is not reality... the map simply illustrates the perception of what we believe to be our reality.

If I were going to go from Arkansas to New York, I would obtain a map. The map is not the road that I would travel -- it's simply an illustration or expression of the "thought of the road" to New York.

The feelings experienced in association with a state of being that's in movement... "in love" would be the results of my thoughts about what I'm doing.... in relationship to "my map of reality."

Thoughts are sometimes difficult to define. Some emotions (feelings), are more difficult to define.... than the thoughts that are producing the feelings.


Dallas wrote:Spiritual truth. Like God. Words cannot adequately describe.... no matter how hard we try.

Perhaps, it's because the totality of spiritual truth could possibly be beyond our understanding. And, all we get is a shadow of the truth... and we try to explain the shadow that we see, and feel and experience. Words are unable to describe the Divine Majesty of it all.

It’s kind of like love. Like when you’re really in love… and you want to describe it, but the words escape the efforts to describe.


This is why for me, it's easier for me to describe God, as I understand God, by expressing my understanding that God is Love. God is Good. God is Life and the Giver of Life. God is Light and in God there is no darkness.

Does that mean that this is what God is? No. It simply means it's the expression of my thoughts according to "my map of reality"... my perception, or understanding of what God is. And, the feelings inside me are the environmental changes that I am expressing as a result of "thinking about" God.

So, I am able to try to describe my "map of reality" of God... or my thoughts in association with my "map of reality"... of God... but it would explain no more about God... than a map would explain New York! :wink:

Beware: don't take any of this to the bank, yet... I'll have to read what I wrote a few times to make sure that I wrote what I meant to write! :wink:

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Postby tim-one » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:37 am

Does AA have anything to do with relationships?

Are you kidding?

Y'DAM STRAIGHT, IT DOES !

Most of it is REPAIR. The rest of it is healthy initialization. But, maybe that's just me.

The other day, I was into some movie on TV. My wife decided that was a good time to start talking about my "progress". :roll:

"Uh huh ... right ... uh huh ... sure ... uh huh ... (will you please shut the hell up? This guy is fixin' to kill somebody.) :evil:

I suddenly realized what I wa doin and my baby needed to talk.

I shut off the TV. I got a bucket of ice cream. We sat toe-to-toe on the sofa.

KNOWING where this was going, I said, "Can we talk? Tell me how things are going for you."

You have to understand how my wife talks.

Her mother is German ... "Alles ist in ordnung" (All is in order, near as I can tell) Culturally dramatic manner of speech. :roll:

Her father is French ... Culturally dramatic manner of speech. :roll:

First grade school teacher ... every stinkin little detail. :roll: :roll:

GOD, I love that girl!

She started, unplugged, telling me how I misrepresented myself when we were dating. The promises of security I'd broken. The lies I'd told. The anger, the heartbreak, the do dah do dah ..... She just unloaded on me, at me.

Perfect. That's 'zakly what I wanted her to do for herself and what I needed to hear.

Me ... Irish Catholic, Mr. life-sucks-and-that's-what's-so-funny ... in reaction to her dramatic manner had always bit my tongue to stop an oncoming conflict. But sometimes my tongue bit back.

I didn't say a word. I looked her in the eye. Listenned. Took it in. I deserved every second of it. I talked back with facial expressions only. Cried a LOT. So did she.

I've got A LOT of amends to make to that girl. I added several to my list. That night was a very special start.

Omagod, how sweet our relationship has been since then. She's laughing more, lotsa squishin' (huggin') ... she got some healing outa that. And I reeeelly got some healin' done.

I'm still a dufus. She's still a drama queen. Neither of us can help it (I'm workin' on my dufism with HelP. (Hey, I like that. I just made that up!)

mm mm mmmmm ... ain't God good today?

Love y'all,
Tim1

PS: HelP :
Higher - El= Hebrew for God - Power

"The Lord is my strength and my salvation; my very present help in time of need".
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Postby tim-one » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:58 am

Heather,

Is that what love is? When you feel things but to describe it with mere words doesnt seem like enough?


I pretty much agree with Dallas on that. Ain't it a joy to TRY to express love to someone else's understanding? Words are SO inadequate.

I like the saying that "Love is a verb. It's done, not just felt."

I tried a few times:

Music

Light hearted
Heavy browed
Sins confessed
Life endowed
Heart and soul entwined in dance
Dreams are born and love enhanced
Music unheard is joy un-done
You are a song that must be sung
And my soul will dance to you

TS
1-1-'79


(un-named)

When music is all you hear,
you can discover all of the singularly insignificant sounds
which mix together into a singularly magnificent sensation

So also it is when love is all you feel

TS
2-11-'79

Dunno what is was with me and music/love back then. Musta been SOMEBODY.
:wink:

Love,
Tim1
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Postby JayWalker » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:03 pm

The program of recovery is all about relationships.

JayWalker
Chapter 3
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