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Dallas
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3397
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas USA
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 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: On the basis of self-knowledge, can I stay sober? |
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| Big Book wrote: | Quote from the chapter More about alcoholism, in the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, starting on page 37:
"In some circumstances we have gone out deliberately to
get drunk, feeling ourselves justified by nervousness, anger,
worry, depression, jealousy or the like. But even in
this type of beginning we are obliged to admit that our
justification for a spree was insanely insufficient in the
light of what always happened. We now see that when we
began to drink deliberately, instead of casually, there was
little serious or effective thought during the period of premeditation
of what the terrific consequences might be.
Our behavior is as absurd and incomprehensible with
respect to the first drink as that of an individual with a
passion, say, for jay-walking. He gets a thrill out of
skipping in front of fast-moving vehicles. He enjoys
himself for a few years in spite of friendly warnings.
Up to this point you would label him as a foolish
( page 38 )
chap having queer ideas of fun. Luck then deserts him
and he is slightly injured several times in succession. You
would expect him, if he were normal, to cut it out. Presently
he is hit again and this time has a fractured skull.
Within a week after leaving the hospital a fast-moving
trolley car breaks his arm. He tells you he has decided to
stop jay-walking for good, but in a few weeks he breaks
both legs.
On through the years this conduct continues, accompanied
by his continual promises to be careful or to keep
off the streets altogether. Finally, he can no longer work,
his wife gets a divorce and he is held up to ridicule. He
tries every known means to get the jay-walking idea out
of his head. He shuts himself up in an asylum, hoping to
mend his ways. But the day he comes out he races in
front of a fire engine, which breaks his back. Such a man
would be crazy, wouldn’t he?
You may think our illustration is too ridiculous. But is
it? We, who have been through the wringer, have to
admit if we substituted alcoholism for jay-walking, the
illustration would fit us exactly. However intelligent we
may have been in other respects, where alcohol has been
involved, we have been strangely insane. It’s strong language—
but isn’t it true?
Some of you are thinking: “Yes, what you tell us is
true, but it doesn’t fully apply. We admit we have
some of these symptoms, but we have not gone to the
extremes you fellows did, nor are we likely to, for we
understand ourselves so well after what you have told
us that such things cannot happen again. We have not
lost everything in life through drinking and we
( page 39 )
certainly do not intend to. Thanks for the information.”
That may be true of certain nonalcoholic people who,
though drinking foolishly and heavily at the present
time, are able to stop or moderate, because their brains
and bodies have not been damaged as ours were. But
the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly an exception,
will be absolutely unable to stop drinking on the
basis of self-knowledge. This is a point we wish to
emphasize and re-emphasize, to smash home upon our
alcoholic readers as it has been revealed to us out of
bitter experience. |
"But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly an exception,
will be absolutely unable to stop drinking (and stay stopped) on the
basis of self-knowledge." the addition to that sentence is mine...
Sobriety for the alcoholic is not so much about stopping drinking... it's about STAYING stopped! The majority of alcoholics can stop drinking on their own... they just can't "stay stopped." That is the core essense of the condition of alcoholism. For those alcoholics that "can't stop"... they can be locked up a few days... and suddenly they have "stopped drinking." Their problem is the same -- "How can the alcoholic stay stopped in their drinking? Powerless does not have so much to do with stopping drinking as much it does in staying stopped!
"I admitted... I became Powerless... over STAYING stopped!" That, for me, was the first part of Step 1. Powerless over "staying sober!"
If you're new to AA and like I was when I first came to A.A., your eyes could be still rolling around in your head -- trying to figure out "How in the heck did I ever end up here?" And, "I just don't know about this alcoholic thing. How could I be alcoholic? I'm smart. Intelligent. I'm no dummy. I show up to the office or my job. I take care of my responsibilities. I'm reasonably trustworthy, honest most of the time, have high moral standards, and I just can't seem to think in terms of myself as being alcoholic!"
My next step was to proceed into some in-depth searching and self-analysis. "Surely, I'm not like those people I meet in A.A. I can see that many of them are hard-core alcoholics! If I had done the things that they did... yes, I could see that I might be alcoholic, too. But, I didn't go as far down the ladder that they did. Maybe, I'll just figure out what they are doing here and apply it to my case. I need to stay off the sauce for a little while anyway -- it will do me good! I'll figure out where I went wrong in my drinking and I can fix it."
"Alright. I'll read their junk and see if I can get something out of it. None of it makes much sense. But, I'll see what they're yapping about. Maybe then, I can write a real book on helping alcoholics that will help many of those drunks. I'll have done something good for humanity -- and then, I'll be out of this dive!"
"It was all a mistake anyway! I was just celebrating! So, I lost a little control and it caused a problem -- that doesn't mean I'm bad -- or that I have a drinking problem!"
"And, the other time -- Hey, I was under a lot of stress! A lot of emotional stuff going on! Everyone experiences this. Booze takes the edge off. I needed a little boost to help me through a tough time -- and I just drank a couple too many!"
"I'll do some self-analysis. Soul searching. I'll figure out the causes and conditions of why I started drinking -- and I won't drink during those times."
"I'll read their literature -- well, maybe not the antique Big Blue Book that was written by a guy that was only three and a half years sober... and didn't know much at the time anyway... I'll do some real academic research on alcoholism. And, I'll read that other book, the thing they call the 12 & 12... The guy was smarter then. He was sober about 18 years when he wrote that one... surely he knew more then, than he did when he wrote the old book! Besides... I want the most current and up-to-date material to read!"
Those were a few of my thoughts when I landed in A.A. the first time. You may or may not identify with them. I was sure I could beat the game! I'm not a quitter... I don't give up. Surrender is not in my vocabulary -- in regards to me! I don't stop until I get what I've set out to get! And, for the most part -- I've always succeeded in getting what I want -- as long as I didn't give up!"
I was doing pretty good at staying on the wagon! I had almost six months back-to-back days without drinking. I figured -- "that was no big deal. Surely, I can do it another six!" I was totally convinced that I could stay sober -- no drinking at all -- and no recreational stimulants either -- or mood altering anything! I'll go back to the dojo and work out daily. I'll go to the gym. Start running again. Daily exercise. Healthy diet. I don't think this A.A. deal is really helping me -- but, I'll continue to do that, too! I'll figure out the real and hidden meanings behind those 12 Steps and I'll try to live it the best I can... for a little while... and see how it goes!"
"I'll take a little vacation! Write up a new business plan. Come up with a new plan for my life and get back on track of some goals that I've wanted to achieve... Hey, I'm coming up on that six month period -- I'll get me a nice tan and a really cool white shirt to show off my tan and my awesome sun-streaked blond hair! I'll order me a new Corvette... all black, with T-tops (removed, of course) and pull up in front of the meeting looking really cool... as I thank them for helping me! It'll sure impress the hell out of them! And, they can feel good about themselves... and say 'Look! We helped Dallas, get back on track! Now we'll see him in the news and on TV, and tell our friends what we in AA were able to accomplish for him! They'll be really proud of themselves... watching me get interviewed on the morning TV talk shows, and that primetime interview with Barbara Walters!"
Okay... so, maybe you're head wasn't as big as mine! I understand!
That was my thinking and that was my life... right up until about 3 pm, on a Friday, headed down to Mexico, to work on my tan for my upcoming important event... when I stopper to buy "her" something to drink.
I had no plans of drinking. I was sure that I wouldn't drink! Totally convinced! I even told her and seemed to announce to everyone (as insurance against taking my first drink) "Hey! I don't drink! I'm a sober member of A & A! Don't need the stuff -- and I feel better without it!"
All was well. All was good. Well, it was a little warm that day... and I couldn't tell if this chic was just tired from having worked the night before... or if she was kind of napping because she didn't realize who the hell she was with! "How could any chic seem to be tired around me! Doesn't she realize who I really am?"
I figured... maybe she's experiencing what I heard that alcoholics do in AA... they get restless, irritable and discontented... and they have a drink to turn it around! I'll get her a drink! That'll fix it! Fix her right up -- and then we can trudge the rest of this happy highway down to party town and I can work on my tan!"
I didn't realize it at the time -- it took me about a week to figure it out -- but on that day, at that time, when I bought her a drink, and told the world "Hey! This is not for me! I'm a sober member of AA! I don't drink"... that's when I took the first sip... of my next first drink!
When I later realized that I was drinking again -- without any intention whatsoever to drink -- and doing all the things that I thought was the right thing to do -- and I was drinking -- I was totally devastated! How did this happen to me? I was watching out! I was careful! I knew I couldn't drink! I had plans and goals and to stay sober another six months was right at the core of all my new plans and goals! And, here it was wasted! I didn't feel like "I gave it up" I felt like "it was taken from me!"
How did it happen? How could it have snuck up on me like that! It felt like I was shattered to the bone!
But,... I'll fix it. I'll get sober again. I'll even go back to AA after I get sober again. (I sure don't want them to think that they failed! They might lose hope in their program and go back to drinking!)
Then, I discovered... that with or without AA's help... I couldn't "stay sober".
I could go for a while without a drink -- but "I couldn't stay sober."
I was like the Jay Walker in the story above. I'd get hit by a bus. Swear off "never again!" Then a semi-truck would run over me! I won't do that again! For sure! Then, I get creamed by the Amtrak! Hey! I'll get a wheel chair! I'll stop walking! And, bam! A trash truck runs over me in my wheel chair!
Alcoholism is an insidious condition. It's very predictable for the alcoholic. They will drink again -- because that's what alcoholics do -- no matter how high the price or intense the pain and suffering and humiliation... When the sky is all clear, on a wonderful sunny day... with everything going just like they want it to go... Bang! They suddenly realize they have a glass in their hand!
For me, I considered it a long time, until I could finally stay sober (no drinks at all) for a few days in a row. And, the longer I stayed sober, I had this gnawing question in my head "How did it happen? And, when will it happen again?"
I discovered that I was getting lost in my questioning... Just like I did the first time I came to A.A.
I started to get lost in "trying to figure it out"... just like my first time in AA.
Then, a kind old guy that was alcoholic and had helped many alcoholics to achieve sobriety -- started sharing a little of his time with me. He was pointing out some of the patterns that he had observed in the new people -- the fresh alcoholics that land in A.A., and the "slippers"... those that keep coming back... but, can't stay sober between coming back.
He said: They get obsessed with self-knowledge and learning about themselves, learning about alcoholism, learning about A.A. and learning about the solution... Then, like clock work -- it's almost predictable... they come back from being on a binge.
So, I asked him "Well, do you think it's the learning they're getting that's driving them back to drinking? Is self-knowledge bad? Is learning about alcoholism and AA a bad thing?"
He said "No Dallas. Self-knowledge and learning is a good thing. However, it doesn't do anything to treat the condition of alcoholism. What you end up with is an educated intelligent drunk on your hands!"
So, I asked him, "What's the deal? Are we just doomed to drink and die at some point?"
And, again, he said "No. The deal is... the solution is action instead of thinking.
We take actions that changes our thinking... instead of thinking about how to change our actions and thinking. A broken mind can't fix a broken mind. The condition centers in the mind and the body. All the intellectual ideas in the world for thousands of years -- has had little effect when it comes to helping an alcoholic to achieve sobriety."
Suddenly, it was like a moment of clarity to me, and I got a glimpse of what he was talking about. I had come into AA trying to figure it out... trying to learn rather than spending my effort on just doing. Previously, I had strongly objected to the idea of "taking robot actions"... that will leave me being the hole in the dough-nut, or someone's cloned robot!" (That was my alcoholic thinking at work... keeping me away from taking the actions -- that would keep me sober -- and keeping me thinking).
Thanks for the opportunity to share!
I wish you the best!
Dallas |
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Susan68
Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Posts: 118
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Duly noted you big meanie. . . . |
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tim-one
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Dammit, Dallas. You're so HARSH!  
You talkin' to me? Are YOU talkin' to ME?? Ok. Just makin' sure.
It's that simple, ain't it.
Self-knowledge and self-will got me here. Self-awareness through turning my will in HP's direction sticking to the BB map DAILY will keep me here.
Lots of wagon-wheel ruts in that road. I think I'll stay in this rut. HYAH! GIDDYUP!
"Thank you, HP, for writing the Big Book. Thanks for using Bill W. et al when they were paying attention. Nice move, HP !"
Love,
Tim1 |
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DiggerinVA
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 142
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| More than I could read right now. But My answer was NO I am not capable of stopping with self knowledge. Personally I have a hard time with someone who is in a meeting that at 58 days and says they are still on step one. They are stronger than I. |
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DiggerinVA
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 142
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I read it. Very good. Yes I still could not stay sober by myself and self knowledge. I had to read the beginning of a book (24 pages) and pray to stop.
People are so afraid of the steps and around here. They tell sponsee's that they are not ready for the steps. Such simple work. Just Do IT!!! |
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GeoffS
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 341
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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How can anyone NOT be ready for the steps?
If you are an alcoholic of the type in the big book and you realise that you are and that you need hepl then you are ready for the steps!!!!
Some of these mythical AA rules really worry me. |
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DiggerinVA
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 142
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| GeoffS wrote: | How can anyone NOT be ready for the steps?
If you are an alcoholic of the type in the big book and you realise that you are and that you need hepl then you are ready for the steps!!!!
Some of these mythical AA rules really worry me. |
Ditto |
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Dallas
Site Admin
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3397
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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I agree... "If you want what we have"...(sobriety) Yes/No?
And, you are willing to do the work to have it... (sobriety) Yes/No?
If you answered "Yes" to both questions... THEN
"You are ready to take certain steps!"... pg 58 "How to work it!"
Dallas |
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tim-one
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Ain't that sumthin!?
I see a lot of that "not ready for step 1". Of course that's nobody's call but the that one person. Like me, nobody could decide I am an alcoholic but me. Everyone KNEW IT. But I couldn't do step one till I convinced myself.
Well, I certainly didn't have that roblem. I knew it for years while I kept drinking. I admitted and eccepted it long ago.
But I largely hang out at a rehab facility and I see all kinds of beginners like these:
*In a chair by court order.
*In a chair by family intervention
*Took a chair to find out if the suspicion was true.
*Took a chair knowing, but not committing
*Took a chair committing with reservation
*Grabbed a chair committed
*Owned a chair desperately committed
Just because someone is in a chair doesn't mean they are thoroughly convinced. Shoot ... many claim drug abuse but not alcohol and vice versa. Ever seen a professing alcoholic smoke dope? Just not the same, is it?
Some, once admitting alsoholism, find out how "easy" it was to stop drinking once they came in.  Sometimes a couple of weeks is all it takes to forget what drove them in. SO easy, suddenly they "think" they might not be THAT ALCOHOLIC. Maybe it's just a controllable drinking problem after all. Feel better? Maybe I can control it now.
So, yes, got NO clue why, it sometimes takes folks a long time to actually get through step 1 fo a slew of reasons.
Not that I needed it personally, I was COMPLETELY convinced and was IN step 1 for drinking years. But I DID step 1 for a month over and over with all kinds of soul searching and re-iteration, not to convince myself, but to POUND OUT the creepy idea that I knew would pop into my head someday the farther I got from hell that maybe I can do this thing without all this effort.
From the chair I own, no hurry. Gotta get it. If it takes going out again for more evidence ... We'll be here for you when you're convinced.
I'm livin' proof that self-knowledge WILL NOT keep me sober.
It's still true that "a little AA knowledge will ruin a perfectly good drunk".
"Nuthin like a little experience to ruin a good theory."
Love y'all,
Tim1 |
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tim-one
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: |
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PS: What's the hurry?
If Step 1 isn't thoroughly owned by a prospect, he/she will become one of the statistics that "prove" "I did AA and it didn't work for me".
Why not relax and let them get it real before taking the next step, every next step?
Love,
Tim1 |
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Dallas
Site Admin
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3397
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If Step 1 isn't thoroughly owned by a prospect, he/she will become one of the statistics that "prove" "I did AA and it didn't work for me". |
It shows that they were one of the statistics that "prove" that "A.A. didn't work for them -- because they didn't work A.A." Alcoholics Anonymous IS the 12 Steps.
What some of us on this site are concerned with... is the perception that the newcomer gets... that "going to a meeting and taking a chair -- is doing AA." Recovery doesnt take place from occupying a chair.... no matter how long they sit in the chair.
What's the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The newcomer has not "worked" A.A. until they have taken the 12 Steps.
What's the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The 12 Steps IS the AA Treatment for Alcoholism. The 12 Steps are taken to remove the obsession to drink... to deal with the alcoholic insanity of the next first drink and to free the alcoholic of alcoholic insanity.
Why the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The alcoholic does not have a defense against the next first drink... that's the alcoholic insanity.
Why the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The hurry is... we don't want the alcoholic to go back out and drink and die.
Why the hurry with taking the 12 Steps? The sooner the insanity and the obsession to drink are removed -- the alcoholic is in a much better position -- to being using the 12 Steps as a Design for Living.
If you don't stop the bleeding... and the bleeding is killing the alcoholic... why waste time trying to show them a Design for Healthy Living?
The first Nine Steps prepare the alcoholic with the foundation that they need so that they can stay sober -- for sober living. That's what the hurry is.
Without the foundation of the first Nine Steps, and then the completion of all 12 Steps... the alcoholic, in A.A. terms, is "white knuckling it"... they're "on the water and coffee wagon."
In AA, Recovery takes place as a "result" of taking the 12 Steps... not from sitting around in meetings, sitting in a chair talking about your problems. Talking about your problems... will only give you more "Self-Knowledge"... which is what this Topic is about...
Why the hurry?
1. If you are having a heart-attack and it was going to kill you... do you have a desire to not be having the heart-attack? Yes/No.
2. If you are having a heart-attack and it's going to kill you...
Do you want to get to the hospital immediately so that, hopefully, they can do something to save your life? Yes/No.
If you answer Yes to both questions... dial 911 and pray that the ambulance get's there in time!
1. If you're having a heart-attack and it is going to kill you... do you want to think about it for a while before dialing 911? Yes/No
2. If your answer to number 1 is Yes... all you need to decide from that point is how long you want to think about it.... until you become convinced that you are having a heart-attack and it's going to kill you.
Alcoholism and heart-attacks are equally fatal. Grave conditions. They will kill you.
So, we don't ask them, when they come in... "do you want to admit you're alcoholic... and start the Steps"?
We ask... "Do you want to get over your drinking problem?"
When they first come in, most often... it's because of a "drinking problem" and not alcoholism... It doesn't mean that they are or are not an alcoholic.
If the question is: "Do you think it's got you licked?" (i.e. the drinking game is "it's" )... if the answer is No... and they do not desire to stop drinking... they are not ready to take the Steps.
If the answer is "Yes. I think the drinking has me licked... and I desire to stay sober"... then they are ready to "start" taking the Steps.
To start "taking the Steps" does not start with Step 2.... To start the Steps it starts with Step 1.
Can we help them take Step 1? Sure we can. That's what a 12 Step call is all about. (Or.. in treatment lingo: Intervention?)
While we can't take any of the Steps for them... we can help them with each of the Steps... and most importantly with Step 1. This is what "12th Stepping them" is all about.... if they allow us to do this.
Unfortunately, the idea flowing around in AA that is so commonly popular... is that "treatment of alcoholism begins with the treatment center.".... and the treatment center does the work for them, and AA is simply a "support system." Meetings and a Fellowship to get support to re-enforce the activities of a treatment center.
This popular idea causes more problems for more alcoholic and for Alcoholics Anonymous... than trying to assist someone in "taking the Steps too soon!
Dallas |
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DiggerinVA
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 142
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| tim-one wrote: | PS: What's the hurry?
If Step 1 isn't thoroughly owned by a prospect, he/she will become one of the statistics that "prove" "I did AA and it didn't work for me".
Why not relax and let them get it real before taking the next step, every next step?
Love,
Tim1 |
I got one of those temporary sponsee's from the local rehab center. Medically he was shot. Numerious trips to the ER for his body failing from Alcohol. But he would not let go in the belief that his self will would win. I learned allot from him. But it sucked to just have him be dishonest the whole time. I'm not really fond of the rehab system at this time. In time I will grow to understand it.
Let see someone once wrote. "But there is One who has all power - That One is God. You must find Him now!" |
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Dallas
Site Admin
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3397
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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It's kind of like... this guy goes up in an airplane with a guide...
They strap on a parachute... and the guide tells the guy how to use it... shows him the cord to pull... because the guide is going to show him
how to jump out of the plane...
At 20,000 feet the guy jumps out of the plane..
He's enjoying the view...
And, a bird flys by and says "why don't you pull the cord man?"
The guy replies "What's the hurry? I don't want to miss the view! Besides, I'll get a little chip on the ground that proves I jumped out of the plane!
Then, another bird flys by... "Pull the cord man! You're going to splat! Pull the cord!"
And, the guy says... "I don't want to pull the cord too soon!
I don't want to end up as a statistic and prove that I was one of the one's that jumped out of the plane and it didn't work!"
The bird says "Well... you can always change your mind!"
The guy continues to fall... without pulling the cord...
Then, he splats on the ground!
Congratulations on your jump man! You just proved that jumping out of a plane works if you work it!
The guy doesn't respond... not because of the splat on the ground...
but, because he's dead!
The guide is still asking him "why didn't you pull the cord!?" Well, here's your chip man! You just proved that jumping out of the plane works!
Still no answer...
So, the guide grabs another prospect...
and they take off in the plane...
What's the hurry? |
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DiggerinVA
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 142
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Dallas you just got to love it. What a great analogy. It was his choice. |
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tim-one
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Great stuff, guys.
Re: rehab. Some need it. I did. Some are so far gone that it's already too late. Some, mostly not their by choice, just never surrender.
Rehab only breaks the chain that was holding them under water. AA teaches them to swim.
Hey, if you are serious about sponsoring, rehabs have a steady flow of newbies ripe for the pickins. Maybe they're waiting for you to teach 'em to swim. Don't let the rehabs turn them out without the benefit of your sobriety.
Good point, Dallas. Many die taking too long. It's hard to watch. But, as alluded to, the instructor had no control over the rip-cord. After instructing the guy how to do it, he could only watch.
Dam shame, but the guy had to learn at his own pace.
Still, what's the hurry?
I'd rather see one really get it. Maybe spend more time in on-the-ground training than to dump them out of a plane too soon.
But that's just my take on it.
Love,
Tim1 |
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