Chapter 4 WE AGNOSTICS

[Dallas]

[quote="Big Book page 12, Bills Story"]Despite the living example of my friend there remained in
me the vestiges of my old prejudice. The word God still
aroused a certain antipathy. When the thought was expressed
that there might be a God personal to me this
feeling was intensified. I didn’t like the idea. I could go for
such conceptions as Creative Intelligence, Universal Mind
or Spirit of Nature but I resisted the thought of a Czar of
the Heavens, however loving His sway might be.8 I have
since talked with scores of men who felt the same way.

My friend suggested what then seemed a novel idea. He
said, “Why don’t you choose your own conception of God?â€

[leejosepho]

... he compromised with "God, as you understand Him", so that the writing of the book could go on.

Even that is not in our book. Here is what is in our book:

“We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves ... which is God.â€

[Tim]

So, I noticed we've had controversy and different ideas about AA since the beginning.Dallas

Ain't that the truth. One of the reasons that thousands of religious-minded AA's have started separate 12-step programs is so that they could fully embrace their own beliefs about a higher power.

Most attendees still participate in AA, but these meetings relate the 12-steps to Christian beliefs. No one bad mouths AA or suggests that people not attend AA, but it is often a helpful adjunct to AA for many.

[gunner48]

Religion is the chain that bind me to the earth
Spiritality is the axe that sets me free.
If I am to find God the desire must come from within

Doen't matter much where I go to develope a relationship with god, as long as I do. My oldest brother walked into a church about 26 years ago and found a way of life that was good in every way. Never drank or smoked again the remainder of his life. I walked into AA 20 years ago and found a way of life that is also good in every way. I love this program.

If I could reach inside you and remove all your ills and misgiving I would not do so. I would cheat you out of the chance to grow and develope an effectiness that help others.

My life has been blessed by all of you. You have shared your lives and beliefs with me and given me a desire to search within myself for that something that works. Keep up your work, I truly need you.
Peace and Love

[leejosepho]

Religion is the chain that bind me to the earth
Spiritality is the axe that sets me free.
If I am to find God the desire must come from within

Doen't matter much where I go to develope a relationship with god, as long as I do.

Yes, that is what A.A. is about: release from all bondage!

[Ranman99]

Just my two cents for you all. When I was in high school I joined this club called the humanist club. Certainly wasn’t humane! I was a staunch atheist and extremely scientific and arrogant. I think I certainly had a notion there were great powers at work in the universe but I had to spend many years debunking religion and religious dogma. We used to bone up on religion and then invite kids over from the local bible college and numbering usually about 20 to 4 we would proceed to crucify them in debate. Basically we had our ### down well and they had their heads spinning.
The next part was interesting and though a bit of a Rastafarian (that was my excuse and I’m sticking with it) I did get the notion to enjoy synchronicity and serendipitous events. I read something somewhere about getting a wink from the universe and I set out to have faith that if I just keep my eyes open the universe has something to teach me every day.
Only took about another 15 years or so to get into a groove and like AA my HP works better when I don’t drink

This chapter did not match my view of the universe for many years but today I can read it with clarity and take what I need and leave the rest to re-read later when I am ready as you do!

[Dallas]

I find it funny, how so many of us alcoholics that relate to "religion was killing us"... come in to AA and develop a religion all of our own.

Possibly, the reason religion didn't work for us was: because it wasn't ours!

Now... had we been the one that wrote the Bible as we saw things, and the other religious books as we saw things... and made the religions as we uderstood them to be... we would have been happy -- but, it still, in the long-haul, wouldn't have worked for us!

Sometimes, it's helpful for me to not only remember that "if I keep doing what I'm doing I'll keep getting what I'm getting" -- but, to also remember, that "if I go back to doing what I was doing that led me into the condition that I got into -- that required me to get to where I got today... I will have made a full circle! I'll be starting the cycle all over again, and again, and again, and again.

If an alcoholic is of the type that religion will get them and keep them sober -- they don't need AA.... they just need their religion. And, unless they're in AA to recruit others into their religion they don't need AA. And, if religion did work for the one's that are being recruited -- they wouldn't need to be recruited. They would be signing up!

Dallas

[Ranman99]

I'll add to that. My behavior when I am drinking matches the characteristics of "Dissocial Personality Disorder" search that on Wikipedia and see the 7 points. Maybe you can relate to that. Today of course I don't have to be that way. Blows my mind but when I am using I'm mental. Go figure!

However now of course I am ready to write my own good book but I'll save that for a few years

Ciao,

[Dallas]

Mine was "Dis-Associated Self Disorder!" Have a hard time connecting and keeping connected to me!

Yeah. Now that we're sober we can do anything! I wrote a book when I was drunk and used to sell it for $200 a copy! When, drinking became more lovingly involved for me and I had little time for work -- (separation anxiety disorder... alcohol) I hired others to sell the book and split the money with them so I could spend my time drinking!

I did so many incredible things and so many incredible achievements while drinking -- that I thought -- "My life unmanageable? I don't think so! I just can't seem to stay sober!"

Needless to say... what I heard about Step One, kept me from taking Step One.

Now, that I"m sober, and have a foundation of sober living underneath me, and with the tools to successfully have the things that I pray for... I feel like I can do just about anything... as long as it doesn't violate the rights of -- or harm others.

Hey, which topic are we in here? Yikes! Is this the Book Study one? Well... yeah... we could take all this stuff in the book, add some religious ideas to it... and sell it as religion!

Dallas

[leejosepho]

My behavior when I am drinking matches the characteristics of "Dissocial Personality Disorder" ...

I have that problem sober ...

Mine was "Dis-Associated Self Disorder!" Have a hard time connecting and keeping connected to me!

That too.

You people are cruel.