- Chapter 4 WE AGNOSTICS

Chapter 4 WE AGNOSTICS




Alcoholics Anonymous AA Big Book Study and Discussion.

Postby Dallas » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:29 am

But... but, but, but.... we're trying to be kind! :lol:

Now. For me... that's progress!!!

I was always a kind little kid. Hyper-sensitive, too.

After my feelings got hurt so bad -- I couldn't handle the emotional pain, so I turned to being an anger-monger (later, when I grew up more). Because, later, my feeling still hurt. And, I had to act as if I was real tough... because "a real man" would never have hurt feelings!!! :lol:

After getting sober and taking the Steps -- it wasn't hard to be kind -- most of the time. But, I still had some spells that would resurface from time to time. I realized those were resurfacing because I would get away from the daily growth Steps... 10 through 12.

Now, I know what the problem is BEFORE I get disturbed... It's always the same... I haven't been doing the daily stuff that keeps me straightened out. So I try. And, try and try. And, sometimes, for a while I can consistently do it. But, it takes help.

This is why I have a sponsor. I need an authority figure in my life that I will consider what they say -- more than what I say. Someone that can see through me and see when I'm moving into bs territory. Someone I can check in with and get weighed by. And, someone to tell me what's really going on in my life instead of what I think is going on in my life.

For me, this is using spiritual principles and it works for me.

I can lie to myself and lie to God... and think that I"m getting away with it. But, I know ahead of time -- that I can't like to my sponsor and get away with it. It isn't because he's so smart. It's because I'm trusting God to work through him. Perfect protection in perfect vulnerability.

Dallas
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Postby Tim » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:04 pm

Dallas wrote:Well... yeah... we could take all this stuff in the book, add some religious ideas to it... and sell it as religion! :lol: :lol:
Dallas


Much of the Big Book and the 12 Steps were borrowed from religious ideas that have been around for thousands of years. AA didn't invent the 12 steps, they just numbered them.

AA suggests that you have a higher power (they often express this in the Big Book using the G-word or capitalized masculine pronoun).

I don't mind that AAs talk about their own experience with a higher power, it's when they start to make pronouncements for others or launch into general attacks on religion that bothers me.

It used to trouble me more in my early years in AA, rolling off me just like buckshot off a duck's heart. As I've begun to learn, if I don't grab the bait, I won't get reeled in.

Some topics in AA can turn into a Mexican standoff. Doubtless this is one.
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Postby gunner48 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:14 pm

I have found that there is a BIG difference between knowing about God and Believing in. I Knew about God before I got to AA. The process of recovery enabled me to Believe.
Just got finished doing a 3rd step with a man. We read what the big book had to say, talked about the process and then did the 3rd step prayer together so the corner stone of recovery could be set in place. Once again the 12th step promises are alive in my life. Now what I need is a bowl of that vanilla ice cream you guys were talking about earlier today. 4 scoops please with a Pepsi. Root beer doesn't sit well with me.
Peace and Love
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Postby angel143 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:51 pm

Ok Gunner...Pepsi it is...just regular pepsi or caffeine free, or cherry, or diet cherry or just diet.....oh and I think there is even vanilla flavored as well...

Oh so many choices.....
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Postby Dallas » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:14 pm

Oh... and waitress... while you're at it... can I have a cheese burger, a bucket of chicken and a glass of milk and extra napkins. I'm on a high fat diet and I get messy.... I don't like turning pages when my fingers get greasy! :lol:

I'll tell ya... thank God for fried chicken! I love good friend chicken!

Dallas
Last edited by Dallas on Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby leejosepho » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:40 pm

Tim wrote:Some topics in AA can turn into a Mexican standoff. Doubtless this is one.


No, not at all ... and neither is this about listening to my sponsor.

I staunchly defend anyone's and everyone's right to believe and to do as they wish, choose, decide, etc., and I do not push anything at anybody. I have been a complete oddball and misfit my entire life, and I am just now finding out at least some of that has to do with whatever "grave emotional and/or mental disorder(s)" peopler are telling me I have. There is not likely much that can be done for me there, but the Steps have shown me how to at least *act* properly regardless of my thinking ... and when I used to get locked up years ago, that was only ever for my actions and not my thinking anyway!

I share what is in our book, and I do my best to do that within the confine of my own experience. It is perfectly okay with me if everybody else here has "a god of your own understanding", but it is a simple fact there is no such thought or experience shared anywhere in our book ... and so I do my best to let people with "God problems" know it is not necessary to turn away from Him over them. Rather, He quite willing and lovingly accepts this to get started:

"We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. 'Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?' As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built." (page 47)

Now if I am wrong in the things I am saying, just show me where ... and I say that because I have already had a nice taste of this following and would love to have some more:

"The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action. This is the great news this book carries to those who suffer from alcoholism." (page 17)

Show me "a god of your own understanding" in our Basic Text and I will buy the next round of cheery-cherry floats!
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Postby angel143 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:36 pm

Dallas wrote:Oh... and waitress... while you're at it... can I have a cheese burger, a bucket of chicken and a glass of milk and extra napkings. I'm on a high fat diet and I get messy.... I don't like turning pages when my fingers get greasy! :lol:

I'll tell ya... thank God for fried chicken! I love good friend chicken!

Dallas


Well Dallas...as I sit here reading and typing...I have my special fried chicken in the oven!!! Its really yummy too! There's plenty if you wanna make the drive over. :lol:

Ok...I'll get you a cheeseburger, you can have some chicken...I'll even bring you the milk too!!!

And I wont forget the extra napkins!!!!!

mmmm, dinner sure smells good.
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Postby Tim » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:01 am

leejosepho wrote:Show me "a god of your own understanding" in our Basic Text and I will buy the next round of cheery-cherry floats!


Step 3 "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him"
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Philippino Pasta Salad

Postby Ranman99 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:44 am

You guy's are making me hungry so I'm digging into some Philippino pasta salad. There is one high I still enjoy very very regularly. Spicy food. I bet some of you down in the South know how to make jerk chicken.
Hot Damn!
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Postby Dallas » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:44 am

Tim wrote:Some topics in AA can turn into a Mexican standoff. Doubtless this is one.


:lol: :lol:

And, here I am sleeping at the wheel on this one! Heck, I didn't know anything odd was going on... :lol:

Did I do or write something that got someone nerved up? Sorry about that. I must have been thinking about myself so much that I didn't think about anyone else -- so I completely over looked it! :wink:

It's not the first time this has happened to me though. I guess, sometimes, people are having conversations with me, and I'm just unaware that we are having conversation... I'm just talking or writing about me and that's all I'm thinking or writing about -- and the other person will sometimes think I'm engaging with them -- and, I'm single, I'm not engaged to or with anyone. :lol:

Hey Tim, thanks for writing out the words to Step Three above... I wanted to go look up that information in the Big Book, but I couldn't remember where to start! :lol:

Do we all get gifts now... or, just Tim get one??? I'm hungry!!! :lol:

Dallas
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12 Step Alcohol and Drug Addiction Recovery | - Chapter 4 WE AGNOSTICS