- Your opinion is requested

Your opinion is requested




Expect the unexpected... or discovered the unsuspected?

Your opinion is requested

Postby tim-one » Sun May 31, 2009 12:54 pm

Friends,

All newcomers are told that faith in a Higher Power they understand is of utmost importance. I am convinced that it is of paramount import. It is written that sobriety is very near impossible without an HP.

Yet there seems to be a great reluctance among us to help with the search for fear of being too persuasive in one direction or another.

I have a desire to be helpful to those who have trouble finding their Higher Power. I don't care who or what that Power is and I am not inclined to promote mine to a suffering, conflicted mind. Only to help think it through. I am unshakeably convinced of mine, but I am not jealous or zealous in AA context.

I am asking for your opinions regarding another forum here; Something like "Finding your Higher Power" wherein we can discuss the thought processes we struggled with to break through our own resistance. It's a personal, very individual struggle (An internal "Holy War", if you will). I imagine many of us went through different, yet fairly common considerations.

Question:
1. Do you think such a forum would be helpful?
2. If not why not?
3. If so, please suggest forum rules that would make the forum more useful or that would limit misuse. Any concerns?

I can only guess it likely that everyone has an opinion about this.

If you have an opinion, but don't want it publicly shared, you can PM me. I promise your anonimity in this forum.

Thank you very much. God bless you one and all.

Love,
Tim-one

PS: I've posted this question in various forums. Please only respond in one forum to save site space. Or PM me. I'll keep my inbox cleared regularly. Thanks.
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Postby JayWalker » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:06 pm

Go for it.

JayWalker
Chapter 3
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Postby tim-one » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:56 am

Done deal, JW. Thanks for your encouragement.

Nice to see ya here. Love to see your HP experience, if you're so inclined.

I've appreciated your posts. Welcome aboard, my brother.

Love,
Tim1
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HP

Postby Ranman99 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:13 am

Absolutely. I am very careful when I share to qualify that I have an HP today but that there was a period when I was younger that I was a staunch atheist. I’m trying to keep the atheist in the picture and my concept of HP has nothing to do with the major religions. I then went through a phase where I had spiritual beliefs and I read a lot of dogma from all of the major religions but could not use the word God in a meeting. I’ve spent time in all the major temples studied Sufism I always found points of contention and mention of God had turned me off in AA in early days so I know others suffer unnecessarily because it. Today I can take what I need and leave the rest from all major religions but I am still not religious. As an engineer I have come from the scientific minded and sometimes reading on quantum physics and parallel universes or the current theories that expand up to 13 dimensions help remind me that we are in the midst of powers far greater than we can understand. But the big thing my friend are the basic little miracles that have happened in my life over the years and continue to happen if I try to do the will of my HP and stay out of my own way. For me when the time is right I ask others to share with me as honestly they can about those moments that really have touched them. One of mine some months back is when I sat down at the computer to see if I could find any stories about a fellow that had died in a car crash with three other drunk kids had also died. I had been sharing at a noon meeting and then as I sat there I was stunned to remember that I needed to add this fellow to my amends list (I had pawned a sapphire ring of his for dope and lied about it later) and I felt the need to find some connection to the event that I knew very little about. Inside of 5 minutes and I even found out later that I spelt his name wrong I saw a link with my mother’s maiden name on it (my genetic alcoholic side I also have the behavior Alcoholic side so I am truly blessed to see both) I clicked the link and started to read this list of names and low and behold it was my great, great, great, great grandfather. Just a little coincidence but had an impact on me that I am now on the right path finally one day at a time. A former sponsor of mine and one of my program spiritual guru’s says these are the little sign posts. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Postby tim-one » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:23 am

Thanks, Agent 99. :)

I would really appreciate if you would add this to the "Higher Power" topic. Exactly what it's there for. How did you work through you HP understanding during your 1,2,3 steps? What kind of thought processes did you go through to get there? I hope you'll consider writing your story there.

I too came to a very eclectic understanding of HP through entirely different circumstances and with a result pretty much juxtaposed to yours if I read right. Nevertheless, it's not my understanding that works for you, but yours is the only one that's important. Right? That's the point.

I applaud you for coming to grips with it for your own sobriety.

I had a recent experience with a newbie who said he was offended by all of the profanity around the AA groups. I told him it's up to him whether he lets that close his mind to everything to the point being made just like people who let religious words do the same.

During the conversation, it came out that he just said he was offended bewcause someone else had jumped him for using profanity in a personal situation and wanted to know how that guy can get away with it. He said, Now religious words I really have a problem with." I'd later seen him disrupting meetings with controversy and starting doubtful arguments here and there.

The deal is that he is looking for any reason to say AA didn't work for him.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." - Herbert Spencer (Appendix II, BB pg. 568)

God, reborn, faith, grace, spirit. you added "blessed" to my list. Atheists and disgruntled religious people can both have trouble with words. During my attempt at agnosticism, I redefined all of those words to their secular definitions. Still works for me on a mood-by-mood basis. Sometimes I'm intelectuallizing because God gave me that ability and sometimes I'm in spiritual mode. The two are melding the way I understand they should. They are not counter-productive, but complementary.

I also am not religious. People think so because of the God I claim. UH uh ... The HP who sits beside me fishing ain't the one in church unless I take Him there. Happens my "church" is any AA group talking about Big Book sobriety. Woops ... I better qualify that "church" is a secular term for people congregated for a common purpose. Oh, no ... congregated means ... oh ferget it. No, no, no, I didn't equate AA with religion or a cult (which people also erroneously limit to off-the-wall religions) :roll:

Anyway, thanks for your thinking. Very helpful to me today as I reinforce my personal relationship with my HP today. He/She/It/They IS, after all, the working, indispensible ingredient in this 12 step program.

And OH YEAH ... those little "miracles" are HUGE. Paying attention is really cool! Moments if intense gratitude and "You DO have it under control, doncha, HP !". :wink:

Sincerely,
Tim1
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Thanks

Postby Ranman99 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:37 pm

Thanks great reading. Had another great little synchronicity and guess what I seem to connect more with HP when I am reaching out to somone else and thinking only of their welfare instead of myself.

I guess the universe does not revolve around my ass after all ;-)

I'll check out the HP thread.

Must have been a bugger for Agent 13 all those years eh? Sorta like me I suppose. Better to come in from the cold.
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Postby Dallas » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:56 am

I guess the universe does not revolve around my ass after all


Absolutely not! It can't be -- it only revolves around my butt! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for your sharing -- I'm sure that one day, some day, down the road a bit, the collective efforts of those here in the forum that post these wonderful messages... will show up as progress for me -- "if" I apply to me, the things that you write about you!. :wink:

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Postby Madmax » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:26 am

i think helping others is great as long as you are helping others and the motivation is selfless.
Myself being a paranoid alkie would be very hesitant and weary.
please forgive me if my madness offends Im still trying to find my way.
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Postby Ranman99 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:15 am

There are some important images here for me and a bit of the difference between previous attempts for me to get sober to now.

I am still basically cautious of folks but I'm having a lot more trust in my HP and a lot less politics on my side. I have started to have a lot more friends in the program (including my baby sitter) and a lot less toes in the door to keeping the option to going back out open.

More like the door to the awakening in our literature that once it's really been opened we can choose to continue to open it more.

I have had a lot of work options starting to get thrust upon me recently and my approach has been to simply understand and then understand some more. I'm trying to understand exactly how long I have to make any decision rather than immediatly having to act like I always did before.

I have a new employer. I'm still one of those nutty employees though 8) Some of the darndest scenarios have been popping up and I CHOOSE to BELIEVE now that there is a rhyme and a reason to it and some more lessons to learn so I better give things a chance in the right way. i.e. be teachable :roll:
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Postby Dallas » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:56 am

and a lot less politics on my side


A huge problem I've seen over the years and a big stumbling block to recovery: AA politics, the need to be accepted and approved of and thought well of in AA, and the need to please other people.

Sometimes, AA's will try to fit in with a click of people that they perceive to be popular... or they ask someone to be their sponsor because they think the person is popular... and that can be poison to their recovery.... and it affects the recovery of those around them.

"How can I best be harmful to those around me? Get involved in AA politics... to be politically correct."

The entire political scene is Ego driven and Power driven and Control driven. And, Ego is the thing that needs to be smashed so that we have a chance to recover.

It's often funny to watch the AA politicians walk into a meeting: often, they'll be talking about how spiritual or God filled and directed that they are, and their Ego scrapes the ceiling tiles when they walk in the door. :lol: :lol:

Well. They deserve a chance to recover, also... so we pray for them rather than placate and appease them. :lol:

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