- What to do? Help.

What to do? Help.




Discussions related to 12 Step Recovery and Treatment

Postby butch » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:41 pm

Having been at a treatment facility that had both alcoholics and addicts there at the same time, it was presented to me that we all had addictive personalities and addictive minds. (the same disease) We do not have many addicts in our aa meetings and those there used both drugs and alcohol for the most part. To me, cravings are cravings and using dreams are using dreams. I have not had shoulder surgery, but have had knee surgery. I can relate to pain and lack of being able to do everything i wanted. Running for me was out, lifting for the other guy was out. I can feel his frustration as i was frustrated also. I cannot relate to someone who has been in jail, as some may not know what it is like to be a closet alcoholic. I can still learn how to deal with life on lifes terms if i listen to their stories and what worked for them. If i learn one thing at a meeting that helps me stay sober then it was a good meeting, no matter who said it, addict or acoholic.
Just my thoughts. I feel there is no wrong way, just His way, one day at a time.
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Postby Dallas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:09 pm

Kenny wrote:I know Bill W experimented with LSD in the 70's while he was looking for that Spiritual Experience he had while in the hospital, and I always wondered why he never renounced his sobriety date.


Note: It was many years earlier than in the 70's. (It was in the 50's).

Probably, the reason that he never renounced his sobriety date was -- the LSD was given to him by his doctors sort of as "prescribed medication" (sort of -- because LSD at that time did not require a prescription. It wasn't considered a controlled substance). And, the doctors, along with Bill, and some others -- considered what they were doing as -- research, with the hopes that the LSD might make it easier to produce the personality change that is required -- for an alcoholic to recover.

It's kind of like the AA's today, that are being prescribed and taking mood altering and mind altering drugs as "medical treatment" -- that has been prescribed to them, by their doctor or therapist.

LSD, in the old days, was considered a "possible miracle drug" to treat various conditions,

One thing is for sure: Had they offered LSD in AA, as a treatment for my alcoholism -- I wouldn't have waited so many years to join! :lol: :lol:

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Postby knny913 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:59 pm

Thank you Dallas for correcting me. I actually knew I had keyboarded the wrong year, but didn't catch it on the edit. It would have been pretty tough for Bill W to experiment with drugs from the grave! :oops:
However I did not know the correct story about the whole ordeal.
Thank you for getting me up to par on it.
Your friend in sobriety
Kenny
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Postby Dallas » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:24 pm

Thanks for sharing Keith!

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Postby Jim W » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:15 pm

Tim wrote:
butch wrote:i feel that GeoffS is correct. in our rural area we do not have the availability of lots of meetings so we have individuals who go to both aa and na. at the tables i attend, all are greeted warmly as we all are in recovery for addictions. at treatment in valley hope, all addictions were treated the same. I learn how to live life better from all who attend and hope that what i share is helpful to some. He loves us all and with His help we can remain sober and/or drug free.
butch


You're right. In AA our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics/drug addicts/gamblers/overeaters/self abusers/etc achieve sobriety. We in AA welcome them all to our meetings. It's all the same.



No Tim, AA's primary purpose is to carry its message the ALCOHOLIC who still suffers.

It is thinking like this, which is based either in ignore of tradition or in the blatant disregard of tradition that leads to the problems that the original poster described.
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Postby Dallas » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:09 pm

I wonder why there is such a need now to attend "many meetings"?

In 1939... in the AA capitol of the world... they had one meeting a week. And, they appeared to be recovering faster and staying sober... longer, then, before they had so many meetings.

Am I alone in wondering about this???

Dr. Bob was sponsoring a guy. Took the guy through the Steps in one afternoon. Then, sent the guy to Chicago, where they had no meetings, and told him to start AA there.

It took this guy a couple of years to finally getting a regular meeting that held togher.

He wrote in his story in the Big Book... that Dr. Bob was having him to conback to Akron, once in about every two months... so he coud attend a meeting.

It would almost seem to me, that we've entered a phase of recovery where alkies can't stay sober unless they're going to a lot of meetings.

Well. I guess if I was going to do the 12 Steps, like they do in "many meetings"... I could see why they need "many meetings."

Maybe, what has happened, is to be popular in AA, you have to stop talking about God, andor stop talking about "many meetings"... or else you wount stay sober. I guess that means they have no need for the 12 Steps.
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Postby Jim W » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:23 pm

Dallas wrote:I wonder why there is such a need now to attend "many meetings"?

In 1939... in the AA capitol of the world... they had one meeting a week. And, they appeared to be recovering faster and staying sober... longer, then, before they had so many meetings.

Am I alone in wondering about this???

Dr. Bob was sponsoring a guy. Took the guy through the Steps in one afternoon. Then, sent the guy to Chicago, where they had no meetings, and told him to start AA there.

It took this guy a couple of years to finally getting a regular meeting that held togher.

He wrote in his story in the Big Book... that Dr. Bob was having him to conback to Akron, once in about every two months... so he coud attend a meeting.

It would almost seem to me, that we've entered a phase of recovery where alkies can't stay sober unless they're going to a lot of meetings.

Well. I guess if I was going to do the 12 Steps, like they do in "many meetings"... I could see why they need "many meetings."

Maybe, what has happened, is to be popular in AA, you have to stop talking about God, andor stop talking about "many meetings"... or else you wount stay sober. I guess that means they have no need for the 12 Steps.



Hi Dallas,

It has been my observation that the more meetings there are in an area, the weaker the fellowship and the weaker the recovery. Of course I am not popular for saying this, but I say all the time that there are too many meetings in this town and it wouldn't hurt AA a bit here if about half of them dropped off of the map.

I was talking to a man who got sober here in the early seventies when there weren't a lot of meetings. He confirmed my observation. The fellowship was stronger. He said they had a few meetings and lots of AA in between.

Why do the work when you can just go to a meeting?
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Postby Tim » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:13 am

Jim W wrote:
Tim wrote:
butch wrote:i feel that GeoffS is correct. in our rural area we do not have the availability of lots of meetings so we have individuals who go to both aa and na. at the tables i attend, all are greeted warmly as we all are in recovery for addictions. at treatment in valley hope, all addictions were treated the same. I learn how to live life better from all who attend and hope that what i share is helpful to some. He loves us all and with His help we can remain sober and/or drug free.
butch


You're right. In AA our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics/drug addicts/gamblers/overeaters/self abusers/etc achieve sobriety. We in AA welcome them all to our meetings. It's all the same.



No Tim, AA's primary purpose is to carry its message the ALCOHOLIC who still suffers.

It is thinking like this, which is based either in ignore of tradition or in the blatant disregard of tradition that leads to the problems that the original poster described.


My post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I agree with Jim that AA's primary purpose is to help alcoholics. Sorry for any confusion.
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Postby Jim W » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:21 am

Tim wrote:
Jim W wrote:
Tim wrote:
butch wrote:i feel that GeoffS is correct. in our rural area we do not have the availability of lots of meetings so we have individuals who go to both aa and na. at the tables i attend, all are greeted warmly as we all are in recovery for addictions. at treatment in valley hope, all addictions were treated the same. I learn how to live life better from all who attend and hope that what i share is helpful to some. He loves us all and with His help we can remain sober and/or drug free.
butch


You're right. In AA our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics/drug addicts/gamblers/overeaters/self abusers/etc achieve sobriety. We in AA welcome them all to our meetings. It's all the same.



No Tim, AA's primary purpose is to carry its message the ALCOHOLIC who still suffers.

It is thinking like this, which is based either in ignore of tradition or in the blatant disregard of tradition that leads to the problems that the original poster described.


My post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I agree with Jim that AA's primary purpose is to help alcoholics. Sorry for any confusion.



Sorry about that as well Tim.

No biggie.
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Postby Dallas » Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:55 am

Note: I hope that someone doesn't think I'm suggesting that they don't go to meetings -- when they live where meetings are available. No one here has suggested to not go to meetings. :wink:

Thanks guys, for your sharing above! It's reassuring to know that I'm not alone w/ some of the things that I've been wondering. I just had one of those "moments of clarity"... in remembering listening to an Oldtimer that I have a lot of respect for, once say -- exactly what we're talking about here!

What he said was almost exactly what Jim W. wrote above! He said that he remembered back when there weren't many meetings... they were lucky if they had one meeting a week! And, he went on to talk about how much they PRAYED during those times! And, meditated, and read their Big Books, and called or visited with each other -- hoping they could hold out and make it until the next meeting!

This oldtimer is nearly 50 years sober and is an example of many personal characteristics that I not only admire, but I also hope to achieve for myself! Especially the 50 years sober!!! :lol:

He went on to say, that as they watched more and more and more meetings pop up in their town... the sobriety dates seemed to start getting fresher, newer... and not as long lasting... and, that instead of seeing many oldtimers grow up amongst them... they began to watch them dwindle... with no one replacing them. They began to witness more failures -- and seeing the doors of their meetings turn into be revolving doors...

For me, it seemed that the main point that I got out of his talk was: In many areas, where AA has grown significantly -- we seem to be forming a dependancy on the meetings... rather than spending time to improve our conscious contact with God... and relying on God, and doing the things that we must be doing to stay sober... and to make progress in our own spirituality.

Interest thoughts.

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