Are you RECOVERD or Recovering?

Discussions related to 12 Step Recovery and Treatment
Jim W
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Postby Jim W » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:41 pm

ROBERT wrote:One qualifier if I may:What we have is a daily repreive based on our spiritual condition:From the book, not opinion-so I am recovered TODAY, because I don't suffer from the mental obsession, the allergy is still there, but the mental obsession has been removed TODAY. :D

Well said in a few short sentences. Thank you.

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Postby ccs » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:55 pm

this is reaLLY GOOD STUFF thanks guys for helping me this evening :D
robbiechaos you rock !! I relate :wink:

your Sister in Sobriety

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Postby Ranman99 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:59 pm

Hot Darn, glad I read this thread today. I'm glad to be changing.

I've had my morning meeting, making arrangements for a big book study prior to the meeting prior to the 52nd anniversy dinner and dance of AA in Singapore on Sept. 19.

All is right in the world for the next 5 minutes.

Now how my mind works - I go to Youtube - Search for "The Marmalade - Reflections Of My Life"


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Postby txsuperman » Tue May 04, 2010 11:04 am

pg. 120 of the Big Book says that either God had removed the problem or He hasn't. Pretty simple.

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Postby Dallas » Tue May 04, 2010 2:28 pm

Hello TX! Great to see you. I hope that Life has been treating you really good!

Yes, you're absolutely correct!

I've seen more than my share of old-timers, that must have only thought that God had removed their problem, and they returned to drinking. From what I've observed, it seems to often happen during the 20 to 25 year sober phase.

The reason it has much concern to me, is that, this is the phase that I am in. And, even though I've done all the work and continue to do the work, to have the problem removed from my life -- I have to reasonably ask myself, "what makes me different from the one's that I've seen that... obvious to me and to them -- the problem had been removed -- but they returned to drinking and died drunk? They had totally re-created their lives. They appeared to have made significant spiritual progress. They were fine examples of one alcoholic helping another. What makes me so special... to think that I might not end up being one of them?"

Over the years, I've heard from many others through this website, that were like me. They were sober, 20 -25 years. The problem had been removed. Then, one day, an insane and insidious idea entered their head, and they said to themselves: "I've been sober almost 25 years. God has removed the problem from me. How could one little tiny glass of wine hurt me? Besides, this is such a special occassion and I don't want to be a party pooper."

I think it's very sad and unfortunate, that this happened to them, and even much more sad to me... if I ended up to be one of them.

More than one alkie I've known, his minister was with him. Actually, both of them were ministers, and had devoted their lives to helping others and to seeking to do God's will in their lives. His minister offered him a drink -- and the alkie recoiled from it as if it were a hot flame.

His minister asked him, "What's wrong? Do you have a problem w/ alcohol?"

And, the other minister answered him, "Well, I used to have a problem with it, but I haven't had a drink now since the say I got saved. I don't think God wants me putting that stuff in my body, because my body, is His Temple."

His ministered said to him: "Well. I used to be an alcoholic. I was a member of AA for 25 years. And, this is actually, how God eventually led me into my ministry. However, when I got born again, I became a new creature in Christ and no longer alcoholic." Then, he quoted 2 Cor. 5:17 "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature... old things are passed away, and behold, all things are new."

He went on to say that he had been delivered, recovered, born again, filled with God's spirit, and totally transformed. He was no longer an alcoholic, but was now God's child.

The younger minister was shocked to hear him say that. The younger minister didn't know anything at all about AA, other than they must be some kind of cult or something -- because they have their own Higher Power, and it isn't necessarily Jesus.

Both of these ministers were working on skid-row, running a huge rescue mission in downtown Los Angeles. They were helping thousands. The younger minister was especially busy trying to help the drunks, wino's and drug addicts of skid-row... to get born again and re-create their lives through Christ and the spiritual principles of the Bible.

What happened?

The younger minister... about two weeks later, after rejecting the offer of a drink... thought about what his Senior minister had told him about a being recovered alcoholic. It was a terribly hot day working on skid-row, in the middle of the summer. That night, the younger minister, on his way home began to think, "Gees. A little bit of beer should taste good right now!" And, he stopped and bought a can of beer, reasoning that... "Well, My Elder, Senior Minister, used to be an alcoholic. But, he's recovered now. And, he's able to drink Jack Daniels, in the office of the mission -- and he showed me in the Bible, "why" he could drinkl again, without it being a problem. He was recovered."

So, the younger minister said to himself, "Surely, just a little bit of beer won't hurt me!"

Within three weeks of that day, the younger minister got drunk. The SWAT team was called and they arrested him and sent him to prison for a few years.

The Senior Minister, the ex-alcoholic, that had recovered, and had become an ex-AA for 25 years... ended up drinking himself to death in an alley on skid-row.

I often think of this story, because after the younger minister finally got out of prison... about seven years later, he ended up in AA, got sober, and he is still sober to this day -- while his boss and Senior minister, the recovered alcoholic -- drank himself to death.

Why do I think of this story often? Because... it's my story. I was the younger minister.

Thanks for letting me share!

Dallas B.

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Postby txsuperman » Tue May 04, 2010 2:46 pm

thanks for sharing Dallas. goes to show that alcohol is cunning and baffling. goes to show that if i stop doing what i'm supposed to do, EVERYDAY, the same can happen to any of us.

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Postby Tim » Tue May 04, 2010 7:34 pm

That was a sad, tragic story, Dallas. I don't know how anyone can distort the words of the Bible into a belief that a Christian who is a recovered alcoholic can drink again. That is pure madness! Religious faith does not change our eye color from brown to blue or change alcoholics into non-alcoholics. I believe that God has restored me to sanity, not made me into a social drinker.

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Postby Dallas » Tue May 04, 2010 8:55 pm

I can only reply for me, Tim. It may not apply to anyone else. But, sometimes, we hear a phrase of something like "replay the tape"... And, for me, there seems at times to be blank spots and breaks in the tape. Perhaps, it's my alcoholism -- perhaps not. I tend to believe it is somehow related to my alcoholism, because it helps me better understand the idea that "at certain times" I will have no effective defense against the first drink. Period. That's what Powerless means to me. And, it goes on, to indicate that my defense, during those times... must come from a Higher Power. And, that to me, suggests that, I'm not the Higher Power. I must depend, and hope, and trust, and try to the best of my ability -- to keep connected to whatever it is that keeps me sober, during those blank spots -- of being without a defense.

I don't live in fear -- that I'll drink again. I love the life I've been given and the experience of having the obsession and the compulsion removed in regards to drinking. My feelings are that "it's gone." But, to be on the safe side, I try to live my life by Intellect rather than Feeling. I don't mean Intellect, as in smart... I simply mean it as "look at the facts around me." I can be sitting in a cold room -- and be the only one in the room that feels hot. Or, I can sit in a hot room, and be the one, that feels cold. So, my feelings are not always in sync with facts.

Thanks you guys for sharing -- and thank you, each one of you, for all that you do -- that helps me to stay on this path, and continue my sobriety. I appreciate each one of you and I'm grateful for you!


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Postby Ranman99 » Tue May 04, 2010 10:44 pm

Man. I think we would see the same result with the diabetic who needs insulin three times a day.

Regardless of their spiritual practice and beliefs they will likely still need insulin three times a day :cry:

I will do my best to have to be concerned about what it is like to be in the 20 to 25 period :wink:

One day at a time of course.

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Postby Ranman99 » Tue May 04, 2010 11:04 pm

Nice. I'm of the opinion that I have recovered from alcoholism but that I am still recoverying from assaholism. Someone once told me that step one is the only step that deals with my alcoholism and that the other 11 were designed to work on my assaholism.

In all seriousness I see some people get bent on this point. When pressed by a sponsee I can pretty safely say that perhaps I have recovered from active alcoholism and the craving has been lifted but I am not cured :P And never will be cured.

Being a chronic alcoholic of course there are three main points I look at. How sober am I physically, mentally and spiritually. I'm usually still recovering in at least 2 of the three on any given day :D

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