Constitutionally incapable of being honest

Help for alcohol abuse addiction alcoholics who want to stay sober
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Postby Dallas » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:23 am

Host wrote: but it doesnt tell me how to deal with the everyday BS sober. It doesnt plan out my day, it doesnt tell me how to handle all of the ### situations that come up each day. It doesnt do any of that. It just tells me that if I follow these twelve steps I can stop drinking and stay sober, It doesnt tell me how to deal with everything while i am in the process... It just doesnt.

I guess I screwed up and -- I must be buying defective Big Books. Mine has all the answers to living life that I've ever had questions for, and more. Mine, precisely shows me "how" to plan my day -- and -- "how" to execute my daily plan. Mine -- shows me "how" to get the answer to any problem or ANY situation I have -- AND what to do -- while I'm waiting to discover the answer.

Host wrote:what the Big Book doesnt cover can be covered and discovered in a good meeting with a sponser.

I guess this is where I screw up again... :lol: I avoid much of the advice, suggestions, opinions and theories -- that I hear IN the rooms! :lol: I have to honestly say, that at least 95% of what I heard in the rooms would get me drunk again if I listen to it as "suggestions or directions." What they say -- MAY SOUND GOOD AND RATIONAL -- but, an alkie of my type can't stay sober and can't live comfortable while sober -- by depending on what I hear in meetings.

I hope you won't hold that against me. The one thing that I read in the BB and hear in the meetings -- that is the same -- is, the facts about the need to be rigorously honest. And, it seems to tick off a lot of people -- when I'm honest about me. :lol: :lol:

Perhaps... I'm a different breed of alcoholic. I don't know. The BB indicates that there are many different types of alcoholics -- and it clearly states, in my defective one -- that the book isn't even going to try to cover "each type" because there are so many different types.

However -- this I do know. The BB covers "my type." That's what I know. And, that could be why -- I'm able to see and find all of my answers to "daily living" in the BB. I find in there -- PRECISELY what to do in ANY situation that I've ever faced. When I wasn't sure about it -- I would check w/ my sponsor. But, I look in the book first -- then, I ask my sponsor about it. (And, I believe I have the best sponsor in the world -- he's way smarter and more intelligent than me, and he's been sober more than twice as long as I have). :lol:

I think John's question and his sharing above -- hold the sobriety keys, for alkies of my type. They tried everything else -- even the rooms and the people in the rooms, sponsors, yada yada yada -- and it didn't work.

So, they often conclude like I did at one time -- "Well. I went to AA. But, it didn't work for me. I needed more than what they had to offer -- and I couldn't find it." And, the reason they couldn't find it???? IS because it's in the book -- and not in the meetings. :lol: :lol: :lol: And, very sadly, but honestly -- I've got to say it -- MOST sponsors that I've met in AA -- haven't read the book. If they had read the book and did what was in the book -- they wouldn't be asking me the questions that some of them ask! :lol: And, it's NOT that "I'm so smart or anything" -- it's just that I've read the book, I do what's in the book -- so I can tell them what page it's on when they ask. (But... I AM smart, too! I must be... because I was smart enough to read the book! ). :lol:


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Postby gunner48 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:29 am

Hi All
Think I'll Get in here. Dallas I think my book is defective also for it holds the answer to my soberity. Let me start with what I understand about this topic. Constitutionally incapable of being honest.
Ever meet someone who keeps going out and drinking but comes back and said I have a sponsor. I read the book , I,m working the steps, I ask God for help . The truth is the truth. What I find is
My sponsors name is (blank) never call him but I have one.
Last time I opened my book was at that big book thing, you know on Wednesday Night. They had me read one paragraph
I read them steps on the wall and gee I agree they might help me
I prayed. Lets see when I was so sick and in jail I said God if you will get me through this one I'll never do it again.
If you can't get honest about the most simple thing how do you expect this to work.
My problem is not and never was Alcohol. My problem was LACK OF POWER. I had to find a power by which I could live. and it had to be a power greater than myself. Obviously. Where was I to find this power? Well thats exactly what the big book is about. It's main object is to enable me to find a power greater than myself which will solve my problems. Get Honest. That God you say you have , the one you never turn to, the one you only talk about with that embrassed look on you face, you know the one your grandma talks to and you snicker in the back ground when she does, That God has never worked for you. Oh but you say God lead me to AA. No I bet your ass being in a jam lead you here. Other people managing your life (you know cops, judges, angry wives or husbands the list could go on).
No I wasn't incapable of being honest . I was just a LIAR telling people what they wanted to hear, saying the right things at meeting ,you know acting like I knew something. Landed me in a place you do not want to go to.
I did get honest, got a sponsor (spirital guide really), started reading what was written in black inside the covers of the big book, destroyed the god I brought to AA and started developing a relationship with a Power that could and would help me solve my problems, started reaching out and trying to help someone else, attended meeting and kept my mouth shut until I had something positive to add to the meeting (you know a solution I had expierenced),
If you want to get your life back via the AA program I would highly recommend you stop lying to yourself. If you want to Whine about things we may have some cheese we could send.
My old friend Tom B (Puddinhead) use to say start growing down, become child like and teachable.


Peace and Love to all

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Postby Bensober » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:55 am

One way to sudy it Hosterman is a something that Gunner shared with me a while read just two pages of the Big Book a day. Keep it simple and value not drinking and sobriety with everything you have.

There really seems to be a simple thing about placing intense value on "I haven't drank in this moment, theres another paragraph I can read cause the day isn't over yet, and WOW! I get to become a better person and begin to live a wonderful life!

God Bless & Welcome to A Great Fellowship!

Ben H.

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Postby hosterman1975 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:48 am

Well the reason I am on this forum is for to get the perspective of others like me, and I have not been disappointed. I will be first to admit that I have been the type of alcoholic that Gunner described. The one who never read his big book or talked to his sponser etc.... and I already know that I am a Liar. I lie to myself most frequently, but i am stopping that behavior right now. I have in the past prefaced everything I did with the words "I will try" or "I am making an effort to", and some one recently pointed out to me that by saying "I will TRY" that I am giving myself an out. I tried to not drink or I tried to not drug, but i didnt succeed. BY telling myself those things I made it easy to lie to myself, I could tell myself that even though I am drinking now I did try not to. So now I am reading my Big Book, I am calling mysponser, I am working the steps. I am not lying to myself any more. In the words of Jedi Master Yoda "Do or do not, ther is no try" Maybe Yoda was in the program? Hmmm something to think about.......

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Postby jgrabo » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:36 am

Just another little piece for you Brian and that is that there is also another book that you can get its called Living Sober, don't know if it's available at your meetings but all of mine have it, if not try B&N or Amazon. Hope all works out for you!


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Postby KT » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:02 pm

Man were awesome. Did not hold back one bit ! Sometimes that's what we all need. A real swift kick to get the lead out and get going. I know I can relate to almost everything you said.

Thanks for the good words - I know you hit the nail on the head with alot of my past problems. But it is really cool to see them put so eloquently (spelling?) - Rigorous Honesty - that is the key....thanks everyone. Another good session in

Today I will not drink. Today I will continue to take it one day at a time and keep it simple and especially HONEST.

Love, Kath

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Postby solchilly » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:40 am

Why did Bill even write that statement? If it is truly possible to be incapable , then i am fukd. Everyone in AA thinks this statement applies to nobody. Very confusing.

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Postby MKL » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:46 am

I know until i had the desparation of a drowning man, i couldn't and wouldn't work steps or follow the directions in the 164 of the BB. The am i incapable of being honest with yourself is like a dog chasing his tail, it won't get you sober. You are either desparate enough to work steps or you aren't and if you aren't go back out until you are, that's my advice for anyone that has any doubts if they need to or should work steps.

I worked with a guy for almost a year who complained of working the fourth step as per the BB, said he didn't like the writing so i made the mistake for 6 months of persuading him why he should do it. I was meeting with him every week at my and my wifes home for 3-4 hours every monday night. I realized he was using me to feel good like booze by my giving him a pep talk, instead of him doing the work. I told him 3 weeks ago we weren't going to meet unless he did the work. Following week he texted me he was getting a new sponsor which was fine because i had already knew i had to drop him. He didn't have the desparation of a drowning man, which is why he couldn't do his fourth step. I know which directions i broke trying to help in the BB.

If someone doesn't have a gutwrenching desparation to work steps all they'll do is waste their time and our time by playing with the steps.

I love this program, God and the BB, Isaved my life over 24 years ago. If anyone has doubts if they need to work steps i suggest go practicing your disease until you have no doubts about working steps.

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Postby Dallas » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:46 pm

MKL -- Thanks for sharing. Those are great suggestions, and based upon my own personal experience -- what you wrote and this approach is right on.

Chapter 5, is titled "How it works." Chapter 7, (working with others) could be titled "The way it works." Your message is a great summary of Chapter 7.


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Asking for help is a start

Postby tfaii » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:32 am

Wanting to be sober and getting sober are 2 entirely different things. Some think that they need to get sober so they don't lose everything important to them. The truth is, some MUST lose everything before they realize that the only thing left is the bottle or death. Booze for some IS the priority ... no matter how much they bs themselves. Family, job, outside things .... they are sound reasons, but the bottom line is most of us are selfish and self-centered to the point that getting sober is just lip service. We want to save these things. We really don't believe we have a problem. We are still in the disease and blaming others. This is where HONESTY - BRUTAL HONESTY - is a must, or it kills us.
You need to keep drinking and using. In my honest opinion. What I hear from you is someone seeking out an answer you want to hear. ANYTHING but "go to meetings, work the step, call your sponsor, utilize prayer, and the big one - DON'T DRINK"
I know this isn't the post you are wanting to read ... but, I am over 25 years sober, I sponsor others, I go to meetings, I am involved in group service, I am a GSR, I go to jails and institutions, I try to work the steps in my life and most importantly, I have had a Spiritual experience as the result of my desire and efforts in getting sober.
Good luck to you, and perhaps one day I will see you in a meeting and living the life Bill W. taught some of us.

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