- is there any word as a common denominator

is there any word as a common denominator




12 Steps: Discussions related to the 12 Steps and using them as a treatment to recover from alcohol and drug addiction.

is there any word as a common denominator

Postby MichalF » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:08 pm

have you ever felt confused when you consider differences in following steps 5,6,7
wrongs -defects of character - shortcomings

Do these words refer to the same thing?
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Postby Dallas » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:50 pm

They stand for the same things that you discover in Step 4.
Selfish, self-centered, afraid, inconsiderate, self-seeking will be found at the core of each defect of character.

Wrongs = if used in the sense of "harms to others" = harms to others list.

Great to hear from you!

Dallas
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Postby MichalF » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:02 am

Hi Dallas! Thank you

As usual there is a lot of wisdom in your post

If I take as a axample -inconsiderate ( part of my exact nature of wrongs) what is oposite?
For me this is a lack a respect (shortcoming)

I don,t treat it as semantic problem. I find it practical.

for example afraid, fear - lack of courage

I don,t pray this way God, set me free from fear

I say- God grant me courage to change the things I can
It means that I accept that fear would be happen in my life
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Postby Dallas » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:44 pm

A hypothetical to ponder.... :lol:

Do we ask God, to remove our character defects? Yes / No ?

IF, Yes, -- THEN, how can a "lack of something" be removed? :wink:
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Postby Dallas » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:46 pm

While I was doing my 4th Step on Fears -- in my last column, there is a prayer -- asking God to remove my fear.

If I have a lack of fear -- what can He remove?

A character defect is something that "I have" that's blocking me from the sunlight of the spirit.
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Postby MichalF » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:41 pm

Dallas wrote:Do we ask God, to remove our character defects? Yes / No ?

:D OK
step 7 says Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings

I repeat my question

the exact nature of our wrongs - all these defect of character - shortcomings are the same things?





:roll:
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Postby gunner48 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:33 pm

It was explained to me that short comings are character defects that Have been identified. Once I have said something is wrong for me to do I can ask God for the courage to stop doing it.
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Postby Dallas » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:41 pm

In Step 7, "shortcomings" is the "character defects" from Step 4.

Which column, or list in the 4th Step did we make a list of "shortcomings" IF they are different? We weren't instructed to make one.

Bill W. was attempting to write more eloquently -- by not repeating the same words redundantly. I'll see if I can find the supporting reference for this, for you.

I have heard AA speakers who've added some spin to it that would indicate to them, that shortcomings are a "lack of" something -- for them. It makes for an interesting talk -- but it's twisting the meaning to mean something that it doesn't mean.

The idea that "shortcomings" to be a "lack of" something -- would best fit into Step 10. Not Step 7.

Steps 1-9 is the "personal housecleaning." We're cleaning house. We're bagging up the garbage and taking it out to the corner and asking the trashman to take it away. "Removing" the defects of character.

In Step 10 -- now, with a clean house -- we begin to "re-create" something different in the house. So, we make a list -- and it can be a list of things that "we lack". Something good that we want to acquire to fill the void of what was removed during housecleaning.

What's the purpose of Step 10?

a. To keep the house clean.
b. To "grow in understanding and effectiveness."

How might I become more effective? I might start by "not being tardy to my appointments -- or on my job" (a lack of commitment and discipline).

Ahhh? Discipline! :lol: And, Bill mentions Discipline on pg 88.

"We alcoholics are undisciplined. So we let God discipline
us in the simple way we have just outlined.
But this is not all. There is action and more action."
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Postby MichalF » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:40 am

Great enlightenig answer. Thank You.

Dallas wrote:Bill W. was attempting to write more eloquently -- by not repeating the same words redundantly.


I think so. It causes a little confusion especially for translator.
Guy who translated the steps from English to Polish got word - BRAK for shortcoming which is nearer -lack of, deficiency, shortage, absence than defect of character.
Of course we can get proper meaning by context and sens of previous steps. Besides that we use to consider "lack of" doing programme.


I noticed that it isnt only our dilemma. I have heard AA american speaker who alluded to old times told a story about one member of AA who turn to Bill W. asking how We should understand those differences?
Answer was givenn in some diplomatic way, but I got from it actually there is no difference.
thats why I was asking you.
Thanks for letting sharing.
Mike
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Postby Dallas » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:39 am

It's great to see you and hear from you! I've missed you.
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