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Drug Addicts in AA




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AA verses the addict attending AA meetings.

Postby lilotto » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:30 pm

I am surprised that AA members are still preoccupying their recovery with this subject. It has been my understanding that regardless they both suffer from the disease of addiction and that there is a countless number of substances that can become an addiction for an individual. Today it is quite common for individuals to be dual diagnosed for not only alcoholism but other substances as well. Of course this is in part the reason for the forming of NA groups. Should it be question for those attending NA meeting to expel an individual that also suffers from alcohol. What do we need to do? Start a whole new thing for Dual Diagnoses.

Personally I would rather focus my energy reaching out to others in need of support. If they can accept and fit into the first three steps of AA they deserve my help. If they want it?

GB
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Postby Dallas » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:22 pm

Well, the churches did that for a couple of thousand years. How has that worked out for them, and for the addicts and alcoholics that they've helped? If it's worked real good -- then, why not just shut down all the Anonymous Organizations and everyone go to church? :wink:

Ready for church?
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Postby Dallas » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:25 pm

By the way -- there is a Dual-Diagnosis Anonymous for those that have a need for the difference. Why shouldn't they just go there?
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Alcoholics only

Postby lilotto » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:13 pm

Sorry you are so adamant in your opinion, Dallas. I guess the reason for my own open mindedness is that I have in the past abused other substances along with my alcohol abuse. It has always been easier to quit the other substances compared to alcohol. That is why I consider myself an alcoholic and an addict. But I understand your point of view. For those that suffer from alcoholism and have never used or abused other substances they usually look down on those that are addicts. I think the reason may be because of their perception of what a drug addict is.

Anyway I will respect your view point and continue to help any individual that reaches out for help.

GB
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Postby Dallas » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:25 pm

GB, my point of view has NOTHING to do w/ substance abuse. When substances were not available to me (other than alcohol) I manufactured my own. And, I was addicted to drugs -- long before I became an alcoholic.

An alcoholic or an addict is no more defined by the "substance of choice" any more than a garage is defined by the vehicles in the garage.

An addict is not an addict because they prefer drugs over alcohol. And,
An alcoholic is not an alcoholic because they prefer to drink alcohol over taking drugs.

I think you're missing out on understanding the importance of "singleness of purpose". And, what it means and why it's so important. There is a reason that the 12 Traditions reference "singleness of purpose" AND "primary purpose."

Do not be sorry for my adamant opinions -- only be sorry for your own. It's a concept that you are struggling with. I'm not struggling with it, I understand it, I've thought much about it, I've researched it, I've come to MY OWN conclusions about it and I'm not just parroting an organizations or another persons conclusions about it.

I thought much like you do now -- in my early recovery in AA. I didn't understand the importance and effectiveness of "singleness of purpose." So, I, too, thought that it was all the other people that had closed minds about it and not me. What I discovered was: I didn't know any better. I thought for sure -- I was much smarter than they were. In reality, I was the one w/ a narrow and closed mind. I could only see it like "I thought" that it should be -- so I couldn't accept the fact that someone else knew more than me about it. :lol:

I'm open to discussion about it. How about you present your EVIDENCE that supports the rightness of your opinion? If you have facts that you can present that support the supposition to your logic -- I'd be most interested to hear it. If you have no facts to support the supposition of your logic -- you may want to reconsider your stand on it, and truly keep an open mind about it.

Please do understand, that the above is NOT argument or argumentative, or meant in a way like "Oh I know more than you!" PLEASE do not think that at all! It may appear to you that I'm like that, or this is what it is: but I assure you -- it isn't. (And, I isn't, too! :lol: )
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Addicts in AA

Postby lilotto » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:22 am

Dallas, you are right I don't completely understand what you mean by singleness of purpose. Are you indicating that AA members should focus on the issue of Alcoholism and the individual and NA members should focus on those with a drug abuse issue.

So I should go to AA and work the twelve steps for my Alcoholism.

Then I should go to NA and work the twelve steps for Substance Abuse issues.

GB
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Postby Camel » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:37 pm

I have to agree with Dallas, lilotto. "Remember, we deal with alcohol." That's pretty simple. One must first determine what one is; A drunk, or a junkie, and govern himself accordingly. If one is both, as I am, what was I first? Personally, I just don't think one can work two programs, successfully. Just sayin...........

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Postby Toast » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:58 pm

Was reading today about a new 12 step fellowship for technology and internet addicts. The only snag i could see was they held their meetings online? :?

Kinda defeats the purpose dont it? :lol:
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Postby Dallas » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:26 pm

:lol: :lol:

One that I think I would have a difficulty with is if I had an over-eating disorder (as if I didn't :lol: )

How can you be totally abstinent from food and it not kill you? And, could you really say that "it's the first bite that gets you over-weight"? Maybe, that's why I hear "Over-eaters."

Imagine though for a moment that food is for them like alcohol was for us. We know our obsession kicks in w/ the first drink so we have to do all we can do to not take that first drink. Well, what if, we, like those with an eating disorder "had to" take their first bite? We wouldn't make it. So, I have a lot of empathy for them.

I guess while we're on this topic ... and the idea has been suggested that "an addict is an addict regardless" ... what about p o r n addicts, sex addicts, and those addicts that prey on children? Their substance of choice is another human being -- regardless of age. How comfortable would you be... if you were the alcoholic, or the addict, or the child sex-abuser addict? Would that help you?

Something else that's interesting from my observations is: most often, those that thinks all kinds of addicts is the same -- so recovery should be the same with no separation -- are also some of the loudest at proclaiming the need for setting "personal boundaries" in their relationships :lol: Perhaps -- what if there is a better way? let's suppose that ... recovery is the same, would there be a problem with having "different Fellowships"?

If we change one word in the first step -- and then one mission in the 12th Step -- how would our results be any different than having nothing but churches? Oh, well... I guess we would have a church for spirituality, but no religion in it? Hmmm. Would that work for the church goers? And, also, what about those who react to spirituality as if it were religion? How could we help them?

One thing that helps me when I'm confused about stuff and I can't understand the "whys" and I don't want to "accept it like it is" -- is just to figure that, they probably have a really good reason for it -- that I don't understand .... YET. So, when it becomes really important to me, or it becomes life-threatening -- I'll spend some time in research, to come up with my own truth of opinion on it -- that will be based upon facts and evidence rather than speculation.
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Postby Toast » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:24 am

For me the difference between an alcoholic and a normal drinker is one can let themselves go and get themselves back, the other cant. This is why i needed AA in the first place, i was gone, out there and couldnt get myself back? :shock:

I'd tried the churches, professional counsellors and many other agencies but nothing worked for this alcoholic. Only the spiritual principles contained in the programme of AA could rescue me from that SEEMINGLY hopeless state of mind and body and fill my life with happiness, peace and contentment. :wink:

There's magic in them thar rooms! :lol:
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