- Oldtime thinking and the 12 steps

Oldtime thinking and the 12 steps




12 Steps: Discussions related to the 12 Steps and using them as a treatment to recover from alcohol and drug addiction.

Oldtime thinking and the Twelve Steps

Postby Jim W » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:27 pm

Although what I stated in a previous post about the language in "To Wives" is true for me, I'm pretty much with Dallas here. Words are only symbols. It's like people that have a problem with the word God. They have such a problem with the word that they can't gey past the word to what the reality is behind the word.

You will recall a General Service Conference agenda item of a few years ago. It proposed to put a disclaimer in the front "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" basically apologizing for the way Bill wrote it, using the language and terminology of those times. Of course it didn't fly.

In short, get over it. I haven't let the way the chapter "Two Wives' is written deter me from using it in my work with others because it does contain some very good principles.
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Oldtime thinking and the Twelve Steps

Postby Jim W » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:32 pm

As an addendum to the previous post-Part of my drunkaloge is that in drunken rage blackouts I did hit my wife. It is not something I'm proud of, but it is part of my history and something I will have to live with the rest of my life. But the fact of the matter is that I am not the man that committed the act. I've been changed and am not capable of committing an act of violence towards a woman. Or any human being for that matter. All due to taking some action and practicing some principles in a politically incorrect book called "Alcoholics Anonymous."
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Postby garden variety » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:07 am

Go ahead and laugh and joke as you will, friends. Be defensive as you want to. You all have that right. Bottom line is I love the Big Book as much as anyone else. And "To Wives" has got a lot in it thats helpful to me.

If you want me to "get over it" I don't know what you mean, and I guess it don't matter much what it means to me anyway.

Funny thing is, Dallas you asked everyone to give one idea on how to "modernize" the Big Book or program or whatever you asked that I thought I understood. That's just what I did. Then you and Mike jump down my throat because I said something you don't like. Well the thought wasn't directed at you personally anyway, so maybe it aint me who needs to be getting over anything.

I said what I see is it happens that way with people in and out of the rooms. I been around long enough to watch girls getting hurt, I been secretary of a home group and the whole matter of guys respecting girls by not cornering them alone and hitting on them became a part of group conscious. What you guys did in your wreckage aint for me to judge either. I need to keep my side of the street as good as I can, and that don't involve me taking your inventory. But when a new girl comes to me as "trusted servant" secretary and says she aint coming back because a guy had more in mind than getting well, I think then I have a responsibility.

Guys like you Dallas, tell me its my responsibility to make sure that when somebody reaches out that the hand of AA needs to be there. And that hand is supposed to be helping and not hurting. You might not care to hear my opinion on it, and that don't matter either. But if you don't think you want to hear my opinion, then don't ask me for it. And if you ask me for it, don't make me out to be some kind of moron because I don't see things the same as you. That's not what I do to you, and it sure aint my primary purpose to get under your skin and if it looks that way then I'm wrong and need to change something.

If you want, I'll just mind my own business and not say anything. But just like you guys, I'm not the same man I used to be either. I'll be honest with you if you ask me, and I won't hide my defects behind a smile and words that don't say what I mean. If I'm an idiot to one of you, I'm an idiot to all of us. So if I've been an idiot, please forgive me and pray for me a like you would a sick friend.

Here's one thing I learned. If I can't give you a blessing, then what I'm holding on to is hurting me as much or more than it hurts you. Partners, I don't have anything to get over cause I want my God to give you everything the same way He gives to me. I don't care if you like me or not, I gotta answer to a Power greater than me, and He teaches me I need to love whether I want to or not.
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Oldtime thinking and the Twelve Steps

Postby Jim W » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:23 am

I deplore what sometimes happens to the newer women in AA. I have confronted a few of the wolves in sheeps' clothing that prey on them. Beyond that, not much I can do. But it looks to me as if you have some resentment, garden variety. That's what I meant by get over it. I'm not joking either. I don't think that thirteenth stepping is a laughing matter. But neither is resentment. None of my business if you want to hold on to it, though.
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Postby Dallas » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:50 am

Hey GV....

I’m not sure what’s got you ruffled up. I haven’t even understood what you’ve been writing... let alone to jump in and comment on anything that you’ve written.

I haven’t even been thinking about you or what you’ve written.... so, excuse me if I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

I’ve just been laying down a few of my own thoughts, and none of those thoughts have been about you or what you wrote.

Rule #62c.... “It ain’t me!â€
Dallas
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Postby Tim » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:25 am

My take on the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and other AA literature is to look at the big picture. One can look at a phrase or a sentence or a section apart from the context of the entire book. I try to be careful not to look at only part without considering the whole. There may be a tendency to distort things when one looks at the trees without seeing the forest. This is a principle in interpreting literature, from the Bible to Dickens to the latest New York Times bestseller.

Make of this what you will.
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Postby bill » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:02 am

If someone really wants to improve the Big Book, go through it and make an index.
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Old time thinking and the 12 Steps

Postby Jim W » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:41 am

As I type this I am being thouroughly lambasted on another recovery discussion site. The topic over there is open/closed AA meetings and singleness of purpose. I am being torn apart by some who don't understand or don't want to understand the meaning behind those terms.

I'm not bothered by it. Not the personal attacks at least. It does concern me the controversy generated by the subject and how people take it so personal.

Perhaps there should be a 13th Tradition that reads "Forgive Them For They Know Not What They Do."
Jim
Jim W
 
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Re: Old time thinking and the 12 Steps

Postby bill » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:40 am

Jim W wrote:As I type this I am being thouroughly lambasted on another recovery discussion site. The topic over there is open/closed AA meetings and singleness of purpose. I am being torn apart by some who don't understand or don't want to understand the meaning behind those terms.

I'm not bothered by it. Not the personal attacks at least. It does concern me the controversy generated by the subject and how people take it so personal.

Perhaps there should be a 13th Tradition that reads "Forgive Them For They Know Not What They Do."
Jim


Sticks and stones may break your bones but electrons will never harm you. (Unless maybe you have a misadventure poking a screwdriver in a light socket)
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Postby Dallas » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:08 pm

Jim W wrote:As I type this I am being thouroughly lambasted on another recovery discussion site. The topic over there is open/closed AA meetings and singleness of purpose. I am being torn apart by some who don't understand or don't want to understand the meaning behind those terms.


That's one of the reasons I'm on this site. :lol: I've ceased fighting. Surrendered. I keep it simple. And, I understand singleness of purpose. Besides, the coffee isn't too bad! I think I'll have another cup! :wink:
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