Biochemistry of Love, Relationships and Recovery

A discussion of topics related to relationships in recovery and treatment
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Location: Australia

Postby GeoffS » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:17 am

Hi again Kelly.

Not picking on you, but your posts seem to be hitting a chord tonight.

I've posted somewhere else on what I've been told about these 'rules' things. I'm with you on them, and add show me where it has them in the big book?

The whole idea of no relationships, where does that leave married alcoholics? They have a whole lot of relationship building to be done, no?

Enjoy your date, have fun you deserve it. If you had a sponsor she could talk it all through with you first and AFTER, and keep you current with yourself, another human being and god. Doing that kinda helps straighten your thoughts.

I was told, the best thing to do about the sponsor thing is to ask someone you are ok with to do it temporarily, and that gives you more connections and meet more people with more sobriety. If you tell her that you would like her to help you while you look for someone, she'll probably help you, and may even turn out to be the one!

Procrastination is the theif of time!

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Postby Susan » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:02 pm

Hi Kelly, do the best you can do for today. You are not the only person who was not able to live up to the suggestions.

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Postby Kelly » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:25 am

Thanks for all the advice. Told you guys I have a tendency to make things overly complicated when they're really not! :roll:

Happy sober Thurday everyone!


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Postby Kelly » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:56 am

Hmmmmm, am I supposed to “thank youâ€

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Postby Kelly » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:15 pm

Thank you for your comments Paul. I am almost certain that you speak from experience and damn well know what you are talking about.

For me, however, I don't have a thick skin...and probably won't ever have a thick skin. Truthfully, I have wished that I had a thicker skin (my whole life) in the past because it certainly would have made a big difference in the degree of pain in my life...but the truth is, I don't have a thick skin.

I am going to be taking a break from this forum. I will be back. I just need a little space for now.

I wish you all the best of luck and much love.


garden variety
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Postby garden variety » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:10 am

I am sorry, Kelly. Sometimes email or posting doesn't always work at communicating - I can see that my words have been too harsh with you. That tells me I've been falling short in being sensitive to your feelings. For that I'm very sorry and ask your forgiveness. I don't think the words I posted were the best choices to say what's on my mind - somehow kind attention and appreciation slipped through the cracks. Those things are in my mind and heart - but they are missing in my recent posts. I'm sorry about that, too.

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My name is Anne, I'm an alcoholic

Postby musicmode » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:14 am

Hi ya'd ya the other day, don't know if ya got it yet...been having, uh...e-hem..."discussions" with my computer.

Focus on staying sober and getting well...while I work the steps, and focus on today and do what I am to do...the rest all falls into place.

As for us married people (uh..yes...hel-lloo, over hear :wink: :P :lol: )...everything gets step/day at a time :wink: . And..yes, the sex gets better over here on "married street", too :wink: . As with everything else, I have learn that I don't need booze to "loosen up", or to calm the nerves or whatever...we aren't fearful. Sex becomes more intimate as we lose our fear of getting too close to someone/or having them getting too close for us. I no longer use sex as an "ego boost" (self-serving) otherwords...I'm there for the right reasons...because I really love and cherish my husband. Yes, there was a wake of a mess to clean up, a lot of it was the baggage of the past--that was caused because of my own self-will run riot. I did not understand intimacy, I didn't want anything to do with loving-tenderness and the closeness--because I was sure that "you just wanted something out of me anyway". My perspective was all twisted up and abstract, it was also that way about love and sex. I didn't trust, didn't get close and made sure you didn't get "too close" to me, and I would decide the distance. I needed to learn and understand that love did not mean sex, and sex did not mean love...was wrong thinking. It was selfish thinking. Simply to feed my own animal instincts was really what it was all about--to fill that void, when alcohol failed. The issue with that though, was that the sex did not fill that void either, I was still left with those rotten ugly feelings...that I'd then further drown with booze. I was only fuelling the monster...lust, sex, greed, with glazed over eyes (alcoholic).

Giving it a year is a very good suggestion, otherwise, we might be actually replacing the alcohol with sex...we "need"(ed) alcohol, right? Do I need sex, a man, a drink, the obsessive compulsive trait still lies there. I am aware of a lady who replaced drugs with booze only, then she replaced those with gambling, then she replaced that with shopping--she'd buy shoes, dresses, whatever...and sometimes would not even be her size--it was a 'rush' for filled a void...temporarily, though, is what she learned when she stopped replacing one problem with another. She was not using drugs when she was drinking; then she was "clean and sober", but slipped into gambling; then she was clean of all of these things, but....right? I was cautioned to also watch for eating disorder--that was from someone who knew me well enough to know she should say that--might be over eating, might not be eating at all. I am aware of another lady who keeps coming back--and going out, and coming back, get it. She goes to the bar, "doesn't have anything to drink", didn't drink...ends up going home with a guy cuz she "needs" a man. Robin Hood and Maid Marion are fiction...nobody is going to come along and sweep us away (easier softer way??). This lady ends up going back out, cuz the "relationship" fails, then she's all "boo-hoo"...then goes back out. Get your own head on straight first. I've seen this lady's example way too many times. The wait a year thing though, I've heard that put out there to a lady who was actually considering leaving her long term marriage...sobered up and went "what the f*** am I doing here?" She took her sponsor's suggestion to give it a year...if she still feels the same about leaving, then at least she's doing that with clear headed thinking. Year passes, the lady ended up staying in her marriage because...she had realized that their marriage had been all about her, her, her...and she saw that when she did her steps. Her husband was extremely supportive and understanding, and when he was giving her her space, she, at first (newly sober) thought he didn't like her anymore, she got all definsive and wasn't going to tolerate that, when...what he was doing--was giving her space for her recovery and to get her feet planted into the program. He knew all along that he was going to get "her old self" back...meaning...the person he knew before her alcoholism had progressed to full blown.

Sex is a spiritual connection between 2 people who are just 'right' for one another--and you know that feeling when it it has for Paul. Paul didn't sober up yesterday or last week/month...or even year. (Yes, I know are here...don't wanna come across like I'm talking about 'cha like you're not). Love is not something you "find"'s something that just happens, and, you just know. The "Hollywood version" of love, sex, all just fools gold. I can not call that when I first saw my husband and "bang/shot dead love/at first sight", however, when I first saw him, I just was a no nonsense kind of knowing. I was so relaxed, that what would've been a "gotta have" under normal circumstances (my kind of normal, under active alcoholic conditions at the time :twisted:)...this was one of those times, though, when I had sobered up and stopped drinking (one of those "on my own" times). I knew he was the one, I also knew I was not ready for any contact...had a "fleeting suspicion" that my idea about sex and relationships was wrong somehow??? Just didn't know any more than that--something was wrong inside of me, that much I knew...which is nothing. I would see him a few times through out the next couple of months...and, every time...he was the one. A couple of months really isn't that long, at the time, I was 25, wasn't drinking, life was getting better--I didn't have the knowlege or the understanding of alcoholism, otherwise, I would have known that 2 months isn't very damn long kid. What happened? Well...I'll tell ya...I celebrated my birthday, including my good friend Jack Daniels, saw this guy, knew he was the one/known this for a while, swooped in, made my moves...went back to my night stand, well, he came back the next couple of nights, then went up north to work. I...sobered up again...not feeling too good about myself. A month later...guess what? I'm pregnant. Long story short, this guy is my husband today, we have 2 daughters...but it hasn't been all "happily ever after". This one worked out, only because, I know...that God as I understand Him, made it so...cuz I came SO close to losing it all...because of alcohol. I sobered up, and there's been a lot of times where each of us have realized where we never really knew each other. He didn't have the "real" me, cuz I was too damn afraid of the "real" me. I didn't like, never mind have a love for myself...and there's still a long ways to go...I'm just now, after 7 years and a few months in this program...I'm just now beginning to discover for myself who the "real" me is, because up until recently, I haven't been willing to give even me a chance. Funny thing about that is, that was one of the first clear statements I remember when I first started coming in to AA, and that was to give me a break/a chance...that I might discover that Anne isn't so bad. I'm learning to let go, and the more I let go, the better things get.

I'm happy for you Paul. :wink:

Peace kids, 8)

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Postby Susan » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:59 am

Thanks Anne for sharing your experience strength and hope.

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Postby tj » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:36 am

Thanks for your post, Anne. It helped me. I must say that the times in my sobriety (8 months tomorrow!!!) that I have been the most tempted to drink have involved some situation with my husband. This alcoholic is not good at communicating with the people that she loves the most and she also picks people that are not good communicators. That is a prescription for hurt feelings and resentments. I am making no decisions or moves as far as my marriage is concerned until I have done alot more work on myself. In addition to communication, I find that not predicting my spouse's future behavior is extremely helpful. Staying in the now is another thing that I have to learn. It seems to me that the posts regarding Kelly focused on a relationship that she doesn't have yet. She just has a date. A date is not a relationship. It is just a date. The relationship bridge needs to be crossed when you come to it. For me, I have to remember that my Higher Power called himself the great I Am, not the great "I Was" or the great "I Will Be". Thanks for letting me share. Happy sober Saturday to everyone.


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Postby Dallas » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:32 pm

Possibly, one of the reasons that AA works so well... we're supposed to talk about ourselves (which seems to be a paradox, because we're trying to keep our minds off of our self), we're supposed to take our own inventory, and learn from it, and share from it, and we talk abour ourselves, and share our experience, and let others decide for themselves if they want to learn from our experience, we'll do well. And, the moment we place ourselves in a position of telling, or even appearing to tell another alcoholic what they should do... particularly when it comes to sex, relationships or dating... and particularly if we are not their sponsor... we're asking for trouble. It will blow up on us almost every time.

Us alcoholics are overly sensitive. Our feelings get hurt easy. We're like little kids on a playground. And, we're emotionally fragile. On top of this, we don't want someone else telling us what we ought to do or that we should do. We don't want someone else trying to run our life or make our decisions for us. We seem to learn best by observing others.

I have to be very careful in my communicating with anyone, especially alcoholics. I have to remember, when a guy comes up to me and says "What would you do if you were me..." I have to keep in mind that what he probably wants to hear is not what I would do if I were him, but what I would do if it were me.... and not him. And, the fact is... I don't know what I "would do"... because what I "would do" is not something that I "have done".... If I share what I have done, I can share from a place of experience. If I share what I "would do" it's sharing from a place of wishful thinking.



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