I give up

[MitchellK]

Due to AAWS once again forcing the shutting down of another recovery related listserv through threat of litigation (Just For Today listserv of inspirational e-mail messages) I have resigned my membership in Alcoholics Anonymous. Lest problems of money, property (intellectual and other), power and prestige divert us from our primary purpose. AAWS does not have the capacity to be honest and therefore, cannot recover.

I cannot consider myself as a member of a corrupt and spiritually bankrupt organization any longer.

[Tim]

Due to AAWS once again forcing the shutting down of another recovery related listserv through threat of litigation (Just For Today listserv of inspirational e-mail messages) I have resigned my membership in Alcoholics Anonymous. Lest problems of money, property (intellectual and other), power and prestige divert us from our primary purpose. AAWS does not have the capacity to be honest and therefore, cannot recover.

I cannot consider myself as a member of a corrupt and spiritually bankrupt organization any longer.

I understand. AA as an organization has its defects. I have my own personal issues with it, but that's my problem to deal with.

In my experience, AA is the worst possible way to get sober and maintain sobriety, except for everything else I've tried.

[sunlight]

You can quit?

[MitchellK]

You can quit?

Bill Wilson often said that Alcoholics Anonymous is a sort of kindergarten - It is something we pass through to a better way of life and wider usefullness.

AA is not a life sentence, it isn't something we have to maintain in order to stay sober. All we have to do is maintain a fit spiritual condition (not necessarily predicated upon attending AA meetings). We don't have to give it away at meetings in order to keep it. It feels better to impart recovery hope to others and live by spiritual principles but that doesn't have to be done within the AA program or fellowship.

We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness does not mean that freedom or happiness is contingent upon being a member of AA. Gifts cannot be taken away from us - it is up to us whether or not we want to relinquish those gifts.

[sunlight]

Have you a sufficient substitute?

[MitchellK]

Have you a sufficient substitute?

If what I have works, why would I even consider a substitute?

What do you mean by "substitute"?

[sunlight]

A substitute for AA.

May I ask if you're an alcoholic, & what you have that works?

Respectfully, Sunlight

[MitchellK]

A substitute for AA.

May I ask if you're an alcoholic, & what you have that works?

Respectfully, Sunlight

I find your question intriguing: That all depends upon how you define AA. If you define AA as always having to go to meetings and always having to rely on a sponsor and not being able to keep sobriety unless you give it away and never being able to recover and have the liquor problem removed, that would not be what I have found.

Another assumption I get from people in AA is that, if I don’t live in fear of picking up my next drink or that my “diseaseâ€

[Dallas]

I wish you the best Mitchell.

I think most any organization has problems.

If humans are involved it's going to have problems.... because humans have problems... regardless of where I find them. None of us are perfect. That's what makes us human.

I didn't quit voting because elections and laws didn't go the way that I wanted them to go.

A lot of things change. That doesn't mean that I have to change just because something changes.

I didn't get a new life at the barber shop.

I didn't get freedom -- from eating in restaurants.

I've had many bad haircuts... some that I did to myself.

And, I didn't stop eating because I got some bad meals.

I remember quitting God once... for good and forever... because I didn't think God was doing what He said He would do... and I figured that if all his kids acted the way they did... I'd rather spend a life in hell rather than be with them forever in heaven.

Then, I changed my mind.

The great thing about life is: we can change our mind.

That's what AA has done for me. It changed my mind.

It changed my life for the better. And, my life continues to get better and better and better...

It's changed my mind so much... and so much for the better, that I feel a responsibility, to at least do what I can to pass on, what has been so freely passed on to me.

AA is a book of stories, that offers a solution, and a way of life... and it has two Fellowships... the Fellowship of it's members, and the Fellowship of the Spirit.

One thing I've learned... is what I give away is what I receive.

AA has always had it's problems. That's what it's history shows me. But, when I needed AA... I wasn't thinking about it's problems... previous or present.

I haven't seen anything new... that hasn't happened before. The problems get repeated. So what? God hasn't changed. Recovery hasn't changed. Sobriety hasn't changed. People have changed... some for the good and some for the not-so-good.

As for me... I've learned that it's best for me, if I just don't leave, rather than keep coming back.

By not leaving... I get to see what happens to those that stay away too long. And, that helps me.

Best wishes,

Dallas

[sunlight]

Thank you!

That was so refreshing I hardly needed to shower this morning!

Bill said he was certain that had it not been for its strongest critics, AA would have made slower progress. (letter 1955)

To me, this is not unlike "churches" - corrupt inside and out, from the top down.
And what about the groveling drones performing the rituals out of duty and fear? Do they even have a clue as to what they are called to be, or do, or the power available to them?

Someone was raging about all this to a pastor once, and he said, "Which do you think is worse, the ones doing these things or the ones judging them?"
And it occurred to me that God may be more pleased with the "mindless robots" who try to simply serve Him than the spiritual gladiators combatting everything and everyone.

Spiritual pride is also cunning, baffling and powerful. No match for me.
I had to go to a spiritual kindergarten to learn, and unlearn, and keep on learning and unlearning.

Trusted servants can be worthless servants. I let God determine that. My job is to be made fit to be of maximum service to Him & others. "How can I best serve Thee? What can I do for the one who is still sick? Thy will be done."
I am held accountable. I need to change. And, I can propose that, maybe, WE do too.
It can happen. It DOES happen! There are witnesses.

The gifts given are not just for me. They are to be invested, and then create interest!

There ARE those who are willing to grow along spiritual lines, and who actually DO! You will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny. May God bless you and keep you ( coming back ) until then.

Happily, joyfully, freely,

sunlight

MitchellK wrote:

OUR actual AA work