txsuperman wrote:Get a sponsor who has experience in taking others through the 12 steps and identifies him/herself as someone who has recovered.
If someone says they are still "Recovering" politely pass, and keep looking until you find someone for whom the Program has actually worked. If someone is "Still recovering" then either whatever they are doing hasn't worked OR they may be trying to recover from an illness they havenâ€™tâ€™ got. In either case - youâ€™re screwed.
In the interest of sharing the other side of this view:
1. Also, if someone makes a big deal over "recovery" and "recovered"... or says that "they are recovered" and makes a big deal over it... you might not want to just -- politely pass, and keep looking until you find someone understands what the terms recovery and recovered actually mean.... without putting their unique and different spin on it -- you may want to run! This person is more often that not (as I've seen it) trying to sell you an idea and a theory that's generated entirely from a position of Self-interest. Theories have never worked very well in regards to alcoholics achieving or maintaining their sobriety.
The person is confused -- and you'll undoubtedly become confused also.
2. In the front section of the Big Book, the term "Recovered" is used.
Unfortunately, some make a confusingly big deal over it and the term recover and recovery.
Recover, recovery and recovered all mean precisely one thing: "Sober" And, that's all it means.
3. If the person still trys to convince you of their unique spin on recovery, recover and recovered... you may want to remind them that "the majority of those that the BB referred to as recovered -- returned to drinking!" About 25% of those that went back to drinking were able to sober up again after a few tries. The others died either trying to get sober again -- or they just gave up.
And, if it's important to your research... you may want to keep going to AA and keep tabs on how many of the "recovered alcoholics" return to drinking.... before you "turn you will and life over to their ideas." (Alcoholism is fatal -- the majority of alcoholics die from alcoholism.).
4. The assumption that recover, recovery and recovered mean more than simply an alcoholic that is not drinking... i.e. "sober" ... often leads to the error that they are "cured" of their alcoholism.
The Ego... can be the alcoholics worst adversity to continued long-term sobriety. The Ego is the part that wants to "make you different" and "make you special and unique" and "not like the others."
It would be nice if those that make a big deal over "recover, recovery and recovered" would do a little bit of their own research before trying to convert others to their unique perception.
Why not find a less confusing term for "treated alcoholism"... vs "untreated alcoholism"... instead of mixing up with an idea that really only means "an alcoholic that is currently not be drinking"
I've found that the majority of those making the big deal over "recover, recovery and recovery" do have a valid point, and their concept is near correct, (has potentially fatal errors in it) and their presentation is full of holes and causes confusion, especially for newcomers.
The valid point is "treated" alcoholism verses "untreated alcoholism".
If the alcoholic is not drinking -- and the alcohol has left their body "they are sober" regardless if they are treating or not treating their alcoholism.
ie: recover, recovery, recovered applied.
When the alcoholic "treats" their alcoholic condition with the 12 Steps, they are sober and "treating their alcoholism."
The idea of a "permanent cure" or having reached a level of "permanent abstinence" has lead to the alcoholic deaths of many alcoholics.
This is also one of the reasons that the early AA's broke away from the Oxford Group movement. The Oxford Group movement was a religious doctrine that implied an alcoholic being "cured." (The idea of "once saved always saved" ).
The early AA's had 1,935 years of attempting to use this type of religion to obtain permanent sobriety. (And, a history of a few thousand years prior to that). The problem was: it occasionally worked... but most of the time it didn't work for the "real alcoholic" (the type of alcoholic that the BB was written to appeal to).
Their Steps to Recovered were:
Step 1: On Sunday they got saved and delivered... as they made their confession and promise of "With God's help! I'll never do this again!)
Step 2: on Wednesday they went to the pawn shop, then, immediately launched into a vigorous course of action -- to
Step 3: find the nearest liquor store... and got drunk again.
The early AA's discovered "through their experience" that this would not work.
The most valuable thing I learned in AA, from my very first AA sponsor was a lttle line that's most often overlooked at the bottom of page 58 in the Big Book. It deals with "letting go of old ideas absolutely!"
I believe that this principle is most valuable if applied daily -- and during the moment -- just like "Step 10"... An idea that you had yesterday, yesteryear, yester-hour, yester-minute... is "an old idea".
Keep an open mind and be willing to change and to learn. Remember, once you got it all figured out -- there is no more learning! You know it all -- and that's a very dangerous place for an alcoholic to be.
Keep coming back!