- step 9...injuring them?

step 9...injuring them?




12 Steps: Discussions related to the 12 Steps and using them as a treatment to recover from alcohol and drug addiction.

step 9...injuring them?

Postby angel143 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:43 am

Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

I have read this and read this many times over. What is meant by 'except when to do so would injure them'?

I have one particular thing that I feel I should make amends for. However, doing so, would emotionally injure that person. It would have extreme negative effects on the persons life. Yes, I think eventually this person might be able to get past it for the most part...but I think it would always be in the back of their mind when dealing with others in similar situations.

I care about this person, a great deal. I dont want to see any harm come to them.

To what extent does the 'injure' come into play?

Hope you all have a great weekend.

Love y'all
Heather
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Postby Dallas » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:50 pm

I think you answered your own question:

except when to do so would injure them... or others


1. Would it injure them?
2. Would it injure others?

That's where the help of a wise sponsor or AA friends can help... in addition to reading the instructions in the BB.

It's not right for us to harm then once, and then harm them again, just to try to save our butts or deal with our guilt and remorse about it. Yet, I do believe it's important for us to acknowlege our responsibility, accountability, and to make restitution for what we've done. (That helps us to stop doing what we're doing that's harming people... and it helps us stay stopped).

I'll write more about this later... but, gotta go!

Also... remember... there are Eight Steps that need to be taken before taking this one. It's very important to take them in the order that they are in -- if we want to achieve the maximum results and intended objectives of taking the Steps or in applying them to particular problems after... we have "tooken' the Steps"

Dallas
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Postby DiggerinVA » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:36 am

The real questions. Would it cause injury. The sharing partner or sponsor would be the best person to use for this advise. After all they would be privey to the exact nature of the wrong and most likely the act it self. Then from their objective view the answer will come. Oh yes you should have already asked your Higher Power for guidance on this issue.
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Postby tim-one » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:22 am

Great question, Heather!

And unanswerable with a blanket response.

The good things is that you're concerned enough to have the question.

What I've been exhorted is like this: (some as already said)

*Due diligence in the first 8 steps is the beginning of sensitive wisdom for step 9. Of utmost import.

*Harm to you MAY BE harm to someone else. (ie: If amends means you go to jail, fine if you're the only one in your life. Maybe NOT fine if a family counts on your presence.) Of course, sometimes that amend may be necessary to keep you sober. Consult/warn/get permission from your loved ones before making such amends.

*"In the counsel of many is wisdom."

*If their knowledge of your "sin" may or will cause that person harm in any way, amends can be done secretly, without their knowledge. The amend is for YOU and must be done whether they know it or not. (such a situation is explained in the BB re: infidelity.)

They don't necessarily have to know you're doing it or why you're suddenly doing stuff you've never done before. (ie: They might receive money from surprising sources. They may have surprising access to a doctor they've needed. A legal issue you caused for them may suddenly disappear. A child may happen upon a "Big Brother/Sister". sim et cetera ad infinitem)

*If one is a close friend or spouse, sensitive, sincere, topics might gently work into general conversation. Sometimes, it is not a good idea to sit them down for a "we gotta talk" moment. Be conscientious and considerate.

Anyway, that's the advice I've gotten from peops who have had some VERY touchy things to fix. Seeing that they are humble and long-term sober, I tend to pay attention to them.

I'm proud of you for asking, Heather. You're doing the right thing.

Oh yeah ... this is JUST ME! The BB and other AAers may disagree. FOR ME, it is not a good idea to say, "I'm an alcoholic and I have to do this to stay sober." I've made excuses for myself all my drinkin' life. I don't need an excuse for amends and I don't want one if I've really internalized my defects.

I just say, "This has been buggin' me. Mind if I talk with you about it? I'd like to fix it if I can."

In my mind:
1. They are then free to forgive me or not.
2. They are free to chew my sorry azz out without appearing "insensitive" about MY plight.
3. I am free to be rightly chewed out.
4. I am free to be rigorously honest and regretful without apology (See definition below).
5. I am free to be free. My momma didn't make me say I'm sorry. I mean it.

I hope this helps your decision, Heather. It does me. You do what you need to do. It's YOUR program. Godspeed to ya, girl.

Love,
Tim1

Definition: apology:
1 a: a formal justification : defense b: excuse 2a
2: an admission of error or discourtesy accompanied by an expression of regret.
3: a poor substitute : makeshift

I'm careful not to apologize for my behavior sticking tightly to "admission of error and regret". Not why I did it. No reason is good enough.

Old saying suddenly came to mind: "Explain not. Your enemies won't hear it and your friends don't need to hear it."
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Postby Dallas » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:20 pm

Hey Tim-One,

Enjoyed your reply above.
Dallas
Last edited by Dallas on Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tim-one » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:40 am

WOOHOO!!!!! FIVE STARS !

Thanks, Dallas. I've got way too many empty spots left on my paper to stick stars. I could stand to fill some of 'em up. :oops:

:lol:

Oh, brother ... I'm chompin at the bit to sponsor. BUUUUUT, that's a good indicator to me that I ain't ready. :wink: "Slow down, Bucko. How 'bout you get some o'dat humbility stuff first." :roll:

Around here, theres one o'them "unwritten rules" that you don't sponsor before you get 12 months under your sober belt. I tend to agree with that onaccounta ME. Of course, just like everything AA, it's just a highly recommended "suggestion" aimed more toward advising newbies not to get a sponsor of less than 1 year rather than telling others not to sponsor.

My first sponsor of 6 months went out on me. Great guy. I love the hell out of him. He's my best bud now and we're having a sober ball together.

But, then, I know of several sponsors from 1 year to way more who have relapsed. There ain't no guarantees. And anyone of 20 years will tell you, "If I stop doing the 5 things every day, I will drink." I call it, "Just one brain-fart away from a drink. And one drink away from disaster. Take your AA brain-Beano TODAY !"

Hey ... how 'bout "BRAINO" - Beano and Draino ... I like that! Avoid brain-farts and unclog your brain at the same time! :P

He taught me well through step 9 before he relapsed. His fall didn't have anything to do with MY sobriety. I had a wonderful opportunity to stay comfortably sober in spite of his "unsaintlyness" and then to help him deal with his deal.

I REEEEEELY appreciate your encouraging words. I need others to tell me how I'm doing ... if my fly is open or I have something goopy on my nose. :P

I might be lyin' to myself ! :shock: Go figure.

Best I can say is, "I have my moments. Don't get used to it."

Love,
Tim1
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Postby DiggerinVA » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:24 pm

Dallas wrote:Hey Tim-One,

You'll make a fine sponsor! (If you're not already being one! Good stuff!)

Dallas
tim-one wrote:WOOHOO!!!!! FIVE STARS !

Thanks, Dallas. I've got way too many empty spots left on my paper to stick stars. I could stand to fill some of 'em up. :oops:

:lol:

Oh, brother ... I'm chompin at the bit to sponsor. BUUUUUT, that's a good indicator to me that I ain't ready. :wink: "Slow down, Bucko. How 'bout you get some o'dat humbility stuff first." :roll:

Around here, theres one o'them "unwritten rules" that you don't sponsor before you get 12 months under your sober belt. I tend to agree with that onaccounta ME. Of course, just like everything AA, it's just a highly recommended "suggestion" aimed more toward advising newbies not to get a sponsor of less than 1 year rather than telling others not to sponsor.

My first sponsor of 6 months went out on me. Great guy. I love the hell out of him. He's my best bud now and we're having a sober ball together.

But, then, I know of several sponsors from 1 year to way more who have relapsed. There ain't no guarantees. And anyone of 20 years will tell you, "If I stop doing the 5 things every day, I will drink." I call it, "Just one brain-fart away from a drink. And one drink away from disaster. Take your AA brain-Beano TODAY !"

Hey ... how 'bout "BRAINO" - Beano and Draino ... I like that! Avoid brain-farts and unclog your brain at the same time! :P

He taught me well through step 9 before he relapsed. His fall didn't have anything to do with MY sobriety. I had a wonderful opportunity to stay comfortably sober in spite of his "unsaintlyness" and then to help him deal with his deal.

I REEEEEELY appreciate your encouraging words. I need others to tell me how I'm doing ... if my fly is open or I have something goopy on my nose. :P

I might be lyin' to myself ! :shock: Go figure.

Best I can say is, "I have my moments. Don't get used to it."

Love,
Tim1


Look at the history of when people would begin to sponsor. It is in the Big Book. (I'll let you find it) Those unwritten rules could be killing people. Remember in the 40's and 50's the person was sponsoring at a bout a month of being sober. The 1 St Step is the one the newcomer takes. Then they are guided by the sponsor into a new way of life. Why Keep it from them? Another Big Book Challenge what words describe the timing of the next steps?
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Postby tim-one » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:29 pm

Thanks, Dallas.

Most of the previous post was my reasoning why I don't pay much attention to unwritten rules unless I observe good reason for it. I alway take it seriously, but I gotta see the fruits of the reason sometimes.

They're not stopping me. I'm slowing myself down.

Oh, brother ... I'm chompin at the bit to sponsor. BUUUUUT, that's a good indicator to me that I ain't ready. "Slow down, Bucko. How 'bout you get some o'dat humbility stuff first."


I have experience with ME, too. Didja read my HP thing? My entusiasm gets in the way of my helpfulness. (ie: my Jesus freak days.)

I also have a tendency to go all out then burn out. I'm in for the long haul this time and I'm not only protecting others from me. I'm protecting my longevity from me.

I'm offering my services as a temporary sponsor. The newbies I hang out with (the ones in rehab) don't have much oportunity to socialize with the outsiders or "sponsor shop". I happen to have FORCED the rehab officials to like me 8) and they give me a little more access to the facility than most others.

They're really tight with security. There had been a few outside AAers slipping dope the to the patients. :evil:

I can help them get into the BB and make an easier transition to the AAers salivating outside. :lol: And, as I mentioned before, I can help calm them down about the HP thing. Some are just terrified.

Sorry for making you think they talked me out of it.

Love ya for takin' care of me, bro.

Love,
Tim1
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Postby dopeless hopefiend » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:59 pm

Hey... just wanted to mention and re-mention this as I find it gets muddled up in our meetings because of the "time police." In the first sentences of working with others it clearly states that "nothing so much insures immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics." Once your working all 12 steps and have done so with a sponsor your ready to help another. Get out of yourself. Remember Ebby Thatcher carried the message to Bill W. in Bill's kitchen while he was still drinking and Ebby only had 2 months! And when Bill W. carried the message to Dr. Bob he only had 6 months! Where would we be if someone said wait Bill, you don't have a year yet! (and so on)
We would all be dead! This is all an example of the destructiveness of how ego can re-emerge with time in the program(and how we alcoholics can spread that around in the meetings!) Remember helping others is a key ingredient for sobriety.

If you have recovered that is a message you can carry to the still sick and suffering. That is the message and the only message of AA!(CA also lol). Whether you have a car, a wife, a job, is all unimportant. We need you to carry the message back in! Remember pride kills, quantity is not as important as quality, wherever you are currently!

Thanks Diggerin, I agree entirely!

Thanks and God Bless

mitch d
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Postby Dallas » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:01 pm

dopeless hopefiend wrote:Whether you have a car, a wife, a job, is all unimportant.


That depends....

It depends on whether you are carrying them, sharing them, or passing them on! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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12 Step Alcohol and Drug Addiction Recovery | - step 9...injuring them?