Step12.com

[angel143]

Ok, so, I have my thoughts on this already...but I am posting this because I would like to have all of your input. Thank you so much.

I have come to realize that the only good candidate for a sponsor is a guy. I just dont know if its such a good idea. He is knowledgeable and according to all the people there...he has had great success as a sponsor. Maybe I am being to picky. But I want someone that I think can understand me, someone that I feel I can trust with my life and someone that I feel really wants to help because they really want to help. I get the feeling from some that they do it because 'AA says we are suppose to do it" not the outlook im lookin for. Anyways. This guy seems like he could be helpful. But, he has made it clear that he looks at me as something other than a sponsee. He said that he wants to get me through the steps, learn everything about me...and then once im through the steps...DATE me! Then proceeded to tell me how wonderful he thinks I am. I just think that would be asking for trouble. He has taken it upon himself the last couple weeks to show up at all the meetings I go to. I didnt think anything of it...just coincidence. Until someone said...why are you coming to these meetings? You never come to these. You always go to the ones in the morning! He confessed to me that ever since he saw me at my 1st meeting, he had been using the meetings as a way to keep seeing me.

He wouldnt back off. I didnt know what to tell him. He just kept talking. I told him that, sponsor or not, I wouldnt be going out with him. He then, of course, asked why. GEEZ....so...I tried to explain why. I thought I did a great job of getting my reason across...politely. Well, that just gave him incentive to 'try harder'. Ugh. Seriously? Whats with this guy? I am no where near as great as he makes me sound!

I know that its a bad idea. I really do. But here is one question. If I KNOW what I will, or in this case, WONT do. Should it matter what his intentions are?

And since I will have 30 days on Friday. I want to really work this program. I have done a lot on my own. But I want someone to look at what im doing and tell me if im doing it right or not.

There are things I am looking forward to...but those things are on hold till I can, truly and thoroughly get through the steps. And, that is a smart idea, even though im not a big fan of the idea! I want to be the best me I can be.

What do I do?

Love you all
Heather

[GeoffS]

Hi heather,

You've answered your own question there I think.

If he has made motives like that clear, then he cannot possibly be a good sponsor for you. I don't know the guy of course, but it does sound to me like he may have a few issues himself and be in need of a bit of good sponsorship himself...

Maybe consider asking a lady there to help you by being a temporary sponsor and see how it goes...

[angel143]

I have tried that...with the ones I that I feel I would trust.

Either they are to busy, or just plainly not interested.

I am going to a women's meeting tonight, maybe there will be some different ladies.

Maybe I need to not be so picky?

Maybe I should just let my HP lead the way...he will tell me what to do!

[GeoffS]

you said

""Maybe I need to not be so picky?

Maybe I should just let my HP lead the way...he will tell me what to do!""

I love that sound, the first sounds of an alcoholic starting to get well...

[DiggerinVA]

[Susan68]

[Dallas]

In your quest to find a sponsor have you looked at it from different angles?

You probably don’t need a list of things that are “similar to you and your way of thinking.” Because you already know these things about yourself.

But, if you’d like go ahead and make a list of all the things you want in a sponsor because “They are like me. They’ll understand me because they think like I do. They act or acted like I did – so, they will relate to me.

Then, ask yourself “what will I end up with if I pick a sponsor that’s like I want them to be?”

You’ll end up with a double-dose of your self – to deal with!

What if… you picked someone to be your sponsor… that was totally unlike you? Someone that just irritated the heck out of you because they didn’t think like you, because they were different than you?

Which could you gain the most from… in regards to making changes?

For me, the key to sobriety was learning to desire change for myself. And, picking someone like me… would just help me become more like the me… that was causing problems for myself. It would be a more of me that was blocking me from achieving the things that I wanted to achieve… which was change.

I found it most healthy for me – to pick a person as my sponsor that was totally different than me. Thought different than I thought. Lived different than I lived. This gave me more contrast that I could look at for analyzing my own life.

I got to where I got to – by doing and thinking the things that I did and thought. If I want to get somewhere other than where I got to… “I need outside help” instead of “inside re-enforcement.”

When I was newly a member of AA, I observed that the majority of newcomers were failing. Knowing that I could not afford another chance of failing in my sobriety… I watched the one’s that were failing to learn what they were doing. (Some people teach us what to do and some people teach us what not to do – by their example and the results that they’ve produced in their lives).

What I discovered by watching newcomers that were failing… was… they had a tendency to search for people that were like them – to be their sponsor.

So, I did the opposite. I already knew what their formula for success was producing – and I wanted different results. I wanted opposite results. So, I looked for a sponsor that was not like me, didn’t think like me, didn’t live like me, and that didn’t necessarily understand “my way of doing things.”

I wanted the opposite results of the results that I had – so I picked someone that was opposite to me.

This opposite person was able to pin-point what my problems were. And, I could defy their suggestions and continue to be more like the “me that wasn’t working too well for me”… or move towards Higher Ground.

A little example: Let’s say I want to learn something about sobriety. I think I got it all figured out and I know all about “how it should work”… but… I’m not staying sober… or I’m not changing for the better in my sobriety. Would it be better for me to forget what I think I know about sobriety… and find someone that’s staying sober… and try to figure out how to think and act more like them? Maybe, they know something that I don’t know! And, I can learn what that is… by observing and listening to them.

Another example: I have goals in life. Certain achievements that I want for myself. Would I want to find someone like me – that could only re-enforce my ideas and actions that are not producing what I want -- or – find someone that has achieved what I want to achieve – and ask them “How’d you do that?”

Just some ideas.

Dallas

[Dallas]

BTW: On this topic...

I know we don't like rules... so we don't have any... but, I have one rule for myself. (It's okay if I have rules for me... instead of rules for "we").

For sponsorship

Rule #1. I must not be attracted to them physically. And, there must be no chance of emotional involvement. This goes for Sponsoring or being sponsored.

If there is any physical or emotional attraction -- on either side -- that is the first disqualifier.

I know what it's like to be a newcomer and be sponsored and I know what it's like to be the sponsor.

Don't get pissed at me for saying this... It's not a hootie hoot Ego thing... Newcomers are in a fog for the first year. They don't even know what they are like or are subject to do or not do.... Period. (Take a look at the 2nd element of Step One... in regards to unmanageable).

If you don't believe that... write down what you think you know now, and what you think you're like now, and what you think about now... and stay sober for one year... then read what you wrote... and ask yourself... if you weren't in a fog when you wrote it!

When you've been sober for a year, and you've been busy doing the work, you are going to make two important discoveries.

1. I'm not the person that I thought I was.

2. My values have changed... and what I thought I wanted for myself, is not what I really want for myself today.

Now, I did not say "stay out of relationships for a year, or don't make major decisions for a year, yada yada yada yada."

I only said that you'll make two important discoveries for yourself and I listed them above.

I will go on to say, that for me, in regards to #1 and #2... they are still changing... after being sober for 22 years.

The key to growth and progress is "change." When we are no longer changing... we will cease to grow and make progress.

Dallas

[Susan68]

Dallas, Dallas, you're rendering me speechless, and that is just not an easy thing to do.

Thanks for sharing all of your knoweldge.

[garden variety]

Hi Heather,

I had a little bit to say about a similar experience over here:
http://www.step12.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1378&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

But first let me say that the lady and me were "involved" before she asked me to sponsor her. The other thing was that she asked me - I didn't appraoach a newcomer and ask her if she needed a sponsor, then get involved in a relationship. Well, might as well mention the last thing. Sponsoring her didn't work for either of us. She fired me as a sponsor, which was probably best. The relationship worked out fine once sponsorship was out of the picture.

I know a few men that sponsor women, and women that are sponsored by men. Those that worked are still together. One comes to mind where the male sponsor is about 70-years-old, and the female protege' is in her late 20's. There is no attraction from one to the other. The guy is a widower, and the girl is married with children. Both have decent sobriety and are very active in sponsoring same sex protege's.

What you described with this fella sounds like sponsorship isn't the only motivation. It seems like there is attraction perhaps on both your parts. What can happen from this can become complicated, which can be less than helpful for a new woman (or man if the roles were reversed). Also, like Dallas said, the first year of sobriety can be one of major change where the person is completely different than they were when they started.

What I suggest to anyone I sponsor is to first develop the 2 most important relationships before attempting a romantic/intimate relationship - that is if the protege' doesn't already have a "significant other".

1. Develop a relationship with your sobriety. Sobriety is spiritual to me, so it's more than an "event" or "something that happens". Sobriety is a "spirit" to me - something that is active and alive - something that grows and florishes if I put "work into the relationship".

2. Develop a relationship with a God of your understanding. I was taught that a personal daily working relationship with a Higher Power is the most important relationship I'll ever have. The book says this is a Great Fact. "See to it that your relationship with Him is right, and great events will come to pass for you and countless others."

Regarding the attraction between you and the fella in question here, this is how I would go about it, so this is not even a "general rule", and it's not relationship advice either. I'm just switching places with the guy. I can be a (platonic) friend before getting romantically involved. More importantly, I continually "inventory" myself to be sure that I'm not carrying baggage. The last thing, I'd want to do is anchor a potential companion with my unresolved male/female conflicts.

Any relationship involves work to manage "expectations". I've also found that relationships tend to arouse passionate or strong "feelings". Unless both companions can "master" their feelings, it's too easy for one or the other to become a "slave" to their feelings. If that happens, then the relationship can become unhealthy pretty fast.

Like you said, "becoming the best me I can be" is something I would want to see happen if I were attracted to you. It's something I'd gladly wait for as your friend before we get into "dating" or companionship. In other words, I don't need to hurry anything along. I don't need to "push the river" when it flows fine on it's own.

Regarding sponsorship, I don't have to be a "friend" to be a sponsor or protege'. I pretty much use Dallas's "2 personal rules" in the same way. It's just easier to sponsor or be sponsored when there aren't certain personal "expectations" that tend to be distracting.

For me, a sponsor's first and foremost responsibility is to be a mentor that lives out the spiritual principles in their lives. In other words, I need to learn how the 12 steps and spiritual principles are APPLIED to life. The only way I can stay sober and content is through taking constructive actions which is the application of spiritual principles to every aspect of my life. In early sobriety, I need to rely on a sponsor to show me how to do just that.

[angel143]

WOW...you all are so wonderful to take the time to respond. I had some developments last night! And I think they were wonderful!

K...1st..no, I am NOT attracted to the guy who offered to sponsor me. I had feeling it would be a bad idea with him being so sure that we were gonna be dating.

Last night was a ladies meeting. Ladies ONLY. Ya know...no men!!! Well guess who showed up! Ok, so at this point I thought the guy had lost his damn marbles!!! He approached me outside and asked again to sponsor me. I politely declined. He proceeded to say "well, thats fine, ya know, you may not be as bad off as some others...so you might be ok to date now...ya wanna go out?' eyecryrumba! Really? Wow...I thought guys only acted this way when they were in a bar and drinking! I, very obviously, declined. I also requested that he back off. He didnt seem to think that was necessary. He said 'well, if you arent in a relationship, then whats the problem' Ok, so I see what everyone meant when they said...he might want to revisit his own 12 steps! Guy is crazy..off his rocker, looney tunes. I realize....I look pretty darn good in a hat, no make-up and jeans...but really!

One lady was walking by, as she passed behind me, I grabbed her...she turned and looked at him. She wasnt as nice as I was about the whole thing. I had talked to her previously and told her some things...she told him the same things I did, only not in a nice way....he put his head down, apologized, and promised not to bother me again. WHEW! Small favors!

She was nice, we went to grab something to eat later and as we were talking we just started talking about me, and where I am and where I think I am and what I need to do. I pulled out my worksheets for step 4, told her that I wanted to find someone to help me with it. I looked up at her, must have the puppy dog eyes or sumthin cause she laughed and said 'geez....you look like my kids use to when they wanted something!' She isnt able to be a sponsor...she is moving in a couple days, outta the country. But she took it upon herself to sit with me the entire rest of the night and go through the worksheets. I am going on NO sleep today. But feel so good.

I got through all the worksheets. It wasnt easy, and whenever I would cry she took the tissue box away. 'Hand someone a tissue and they stop crying...stop cleansing...get it out, deal with it, and move on' she was so right.

When I read the responses here, I realized that its a lot of what she was saying last night. She assured me that I may very well have things that come up later that I didnt think of or realize that I needed to inventory. But its ok. I can deal with that when the time comes. As long as I am honest now and do my best.

I never realized the things that I resented, or was angry about. My fears...wow! amazing.

I told her that the list of people harmed....was going to be easy to make amends with compared to trying to make amends with the last name on the list. She looked...it said 'self'.

No one can make me feel anything that I am not willing to let them make me feel. So they really are not the ones that are the problem. Its me. And its the way I think. I need to look at the other side of things. I need to be patient with myself. I need to forgive myself. I need to love myself.

Last night was rough, it was really rough. I thought about things that I hadnt thought about in what seems like forever.

I could go on and on. But this kind lady....(18 years sober) helped me a great deal. She is going to put me in touch with some really great ladies that will be willing to help me!

See...I closed my eyes, talked to my HP, told Him I was leaving it to Him. He makes better choices than I do.

Thanks for letting me share. Thank you all for caring so much to help me.

I am going to be spending time with her for the next couple days till she leaves. Talk. Learn. Experience. I WILL be the best me. I WILL be happy. And I WILL do it all sober.

I love you all,
Heather

[angel143]

[Danni]

angel143, thank you so much for sharing your update! When I first read what you posted when you started this topic my heart jumped to my throat and it was OMG! Please don't let this happen to her!

I know I'm supposed to live without fear but girl, I was terrified for you and I've been praying almost non-stop for God to intervene through the Fellowship of Ladies in AA.

Thank you for sharing your message of hope that yes, there is a God, prayers are important and the Ladies in AA will be there for you if you turn to them.

Danni

[Dallas]

Yep! Those beautiful ladies in the Fellowship!
The most beautiful ladies in the world!

Last I heard, there was a movement with in the Ladies of the Fellowship, that they were trying to get a 13th Tradition written and approved... for the 13th Step predators of the sick, lonely and hurting new ladies coming in!

Had something to do with having a new back room added where they could perform castrations.

AA is a great society with many wonderful people in it -- but, as with all societies... there are some pretty sick psycho puppies running around.

We read about them and hear about them all the time, when we turn on the news! Fortunately, those are not in AA! (Or... are they?) Keep your eyes open for Hannible's regardless if you're in Central Park... Azusa, Florida, Texas, Arizona, Arkansas... or AA! You don't want to become someones Happy Meal! ). The bars were full of them!!! And, most of us survived (or got thrown out of) those places! So, hopefully, we'll all survive in AA, too!

[ccs]