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[Dallas]

For this topic, please confine your comments to ideas and information that is centered in the book Alcoholics Anonymous.

The Source of Our Resentments

The actual topic is: “Self-Centered and Self-Centeredness”

If I would have posted this topic in it's correct forum Recovery Topics and gave it a more accurate title it would be "Self-Centered and Self-Centeredness”

As you can tell by reading the number of replies on any topic related to Resentments, resentments seem to be the hottest topic on the forum! And, it’s probably the same in A.A. Discussion Meetings… the topic most often picked will be related to Resentments!

We will hear all kinds of talk about OUR resentments – but never seem to touch on the source of resentments, as explained in the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous.

Did you know – that it’s impossible for US to have a Resentment – without US having Self-Centeredness?

So, “what would happen” if you got rid of “Self-Centeredness”?

What would happen is: you would be free of your resentments and anger.

You see, it’s also impossible to have anger – without Self-Centeredness!

Anytime you have a resentment or if you are angry – “Self” is involved!

Many people trying to follow the A.A. Plan of Recovery work on getting rid of flaws like resentments, fear, anxiety, jealousy, cheating, lying, dishonesty… etceteras… without ever trying to find out “where do these things come from?”

When we understand the source of our “Character Defects” that we would like to be free from – it will help us to understand their root source.

This is precisely what our Fourth Step is intended to do – to bring to our awareness, the “precise nature of our wrongs” … In other words, “where our wrongs originate.”

Doesn’t it make sense that “if I can fix the source of Character Defects” – I won’t have so many of them?

THE REAL TITLE OF THIS TOPIC IS:
SELF-CENTEREDNESS!

Let’s talk about Self-Centered and Self-Centeredness using the ideas and information presented in the Big Book. Let’s try to KEEP our comments related to the information presented in the Big Book. I realize that may be a quest and a challenge – but, if you’ll tag along with me – I’m sure you’ll be glad that you did!

The Big Book references for Self-Centered and Self-Centeredness are:

page 14 self-centeredness.
page 61 self-centered—ego-centric
page 62 self-centeredness
page 62 self-centeredness
page 116 self-centered

Below, I created a little graphic this morning that illustrates “Self-Centeredness” with the hopes that this will help in our discussion:



Thank you for your replies!

By the way... have you noticed how often forum members and meeting members get a resentment and stomp out -- when someone asks "Can we confine our discussion to Big Book ideas?"

Dallas B.

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For clarification the below was added, as the answer to the
Question: "Can we use the 12 & 12, or other AA approved literature for this topic discussion?"

Answer: The short answer is -- NO.

Only two minor exceptions -- William James, Varieties of Religious Experience, (the reason why listed below) and a Dictionary, published between 1935-1938). AS LONG AS it directly relates to the topic here. The reasons, explained below:

We are doing one idea at a time here to stay focused and on track with the discussion. (Seems like I recently already wrote that!)

If you want to add willingness, obedience, honesty, open-mindedness or other topics, or if you want to include 12 & 12 & other AA literature... Please start a new Topic that is not connected to this topic.... There you can do whatever you desire to do.

For those with future questions... Before you ask the question... Please start at the top of this thread and read each post -- I'm sure it will most likely answer your questions. THEN, if you still have a question -- please ask it. And, thank you for asking first -- it is VERY MUCH appreciated!

The reasoning for the exception:

a. If you are using a dictionary that was published in the years 1935 to 1938, that will be alright as long as it's directly related to the topic at hand. Dictionarys and definitions change over time.

b. Before Bill Wilson wrote the BB, he was influenced by reading "William James, Varieties of Religious Experience" That's the book that his sponsor Ebby brought to him at Townes Hospital, were he got sober... that's where Bill states that he got many of his ideas ... So, Varieties of Religious Experience by William James, could prove to be a logical exception to our guideline because it will define Bill Wilson's understanding of concepts like "Self" and "Ego" that Bill was referring to when he wrote about those ideas in our book.

One of the main points here is that we want to be in that era of 1934-1939 and understand the minds of those that were the early Pioneers of A.A., and specifically, the mind of Bill Wilson, as he understood it, when he wrote the Big Book.

BTW: Any changes to the guidelines for this discussion will be added here to the first message posted in this topic -- for clarifiaction. So, watch for the "last edited" times and dates of this first message.

[garden variety]

Well shoot! I ain' skert of no book! Even if its big!

Let me walk backwards a minute. Today I know that "self-sacrifice and unselfish constructive action" NEVER FAIL. That means NEVER. Ever. So ineveitably, the opposite must be true.

Self-centeredness and selfish destructive action ALWAYS FAIL.

How does this happen?

I think it's all in the fuel mixture.

In fact I think its one ingredient in the fuel mixture that makes or breaks my "success" with the recovery program.

FEAR.

Let me work backwards again.

The "main object" of this here book you're-a-talkin'-about is helping the alcoholic who reads it to "find a Power" greater than himself. According to that book the only way I can get rid of selfishenss and self-centeredness is with God's help. Plain and simple. In fact the book even says that most "good ideas are [plain] and simple" just like that.

So the only way to do this deal is "We had to have God's help".

That book says it's "main object" will "enable" me to FIND God.

What has to happen to find a God? I have to lose something which apparently has been in the fuel mixture.

That is FEAR. The only way I can FIND "Higher Power" and put it in my fuel mixture is to lose FEAR from out of my fuel mixture.

You're probably wondering why I'm saying "fuel mixture". Well what do you you think the fuel mixture does? Without the fuel mixture, there is no driving, right? So if FEAR is in the fuel mixture, I'm driven by a hundred different forms of fear.

I'm AFRAID of today, tomorrow, and the hearafter if FEAR is what's driving me.

I lose FEAR when I FIND a Higher Power

The driving force gets transformed. When I get this "new power" (Higher Power) flowing in the fuel mixture, I no longer look at "Today, tomorrow, and the hereafter" as something I take away from. Instead I find myself wanting to "contribute to" today, tomorrow, and the hereafter.

So now I'll try and simplify the formula for the fuel mixture which drives my life...that is what MOTIVATES me into action.

FEAR = ALWAYS FAILS
(Unselfish) CONSTRUCTIVE ACTION = NEVER FAILS

CONSTRUCTIVE ACTION = FINDING GOD = LOSING FEAR

This fuel mixture works because it's a spiritual program of action

[Dallas]

Thanks Paul.

Now, I'll rachet it up one notch:

The Source of Fear

Fear is the next thing we inventory in the Fourth Step

It's impossible to have fear -- without having self-centeredness!

I would suppose -- that "Self-Centeredness" is a topic that's more important than Fear! Because, without "Self-Centeredness" there would be no Fear to inventory!

Dallas

[garden variety]

Yeah but but but

From what I'm seeing is that selfishness and self-centeredness is the result of my fear. I'm afraid I won't get enough of today, tomorrow, and the hereafter which is what makes me self-centered and selfish. Or like I was trying to say is what FUELS my selfisheness and self-centeredness.

Fear is what drives me to step on the toes of my fellows. When I step on their toes, they retaliate against me like it says in the book. I'm "hurt" by their retaliation that I get because I'm AFEARED I won't get enough of what my fellows have, and I take more. Then I get the resentment.

Look at all of those things that are in the fuel mixture:

Fear

Self-delusion: Afraid of seeing the truth about me

Self-seeking: Afraid that nobody else will look out for my needs

Self-pity: Afraid that nobody will care for me or pay attention to me

Then if I look at the selfishness and self-centeredness standing alone, I'm afraid that I'm not as good as anyone else which means that I am "unworthy" of anyone's love, especially God's. So I'm afriad that no one will love me which means I better "love" myself more than anyone else - at least there's someone taking care of me.

Or how about if I look at being egotistical? Again I'm afraid. I'm afraid that everyone else is better than me, and if they really knew the way I am, they would know they are better than me.

So I think FEAR has a whole bunch to do with self-centeredness and selfishness and egotism.

What I do then is either I directly or indirectly take action that produces these outcomes.

I guess what I'm saying is I can't figure out how to take FEAR out of self-centeredness and selfishness. And maybe what you're saying is the same thing "from another angle". Perhaps you can't figure out how to take selfisheness and self-centeredness out of FEAR.

I think a RESENTMENT is that same FEAR played over and over again - FEAR that is "r-e-s-e-n-t"

[Dallas]

[angel143]

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[angel143]

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[Dallas]

1. We're using the Big Book here, so the quotes from the "other book" are inappropriate -- so, you'll want to edit your message to remove that part that refers to "the other book". (That's the same as "outside information"... that causes so much confusion here).

2. We're trying to keep focused on what's in the Big Book. While other books may be great -- that's one of the sources for confusion around here and in AA.

3. The BB IS the "instructions for the AA plan of recovery". It isn't hard to understand if you stick with that book. And, we will all be on the same pages, discussing the same things.

4. The first post in this thread specifically refers to using the BB.

Thanks.

Dallas

[Dallas]

Reminder, the first sentence in the topic instructions above is:

[gunner48]

Howdy All
Source Of Resentment
First definition of resentment: to feel or show hurt or indignation at( some act) or toward (a person) from a sense of being offended.
Sounds like 4th step to me. Made a searching and fearless MORAL Inventory.
Is not selfish and self centeriness of me saying its OK for me to treat you bad but you had better not treat me that way.
I don't believe I can have a resentment against anyone or anything unless I feel they have harmed me. For some reason if you treat me right I don't get resentments. On our 4th step we listed on our GRUDGE LIST page 65 those we were sore at. Who are they and what did they do either AS A ACTION TOWARD ME OR A REACTION TO WHAT I HAD DONE. In other words my own difinition Of harm. We look at what within us was injured. Was it our self-esteem, our security, our ambitions our personal or sex relations (these 5 things)
on page 66 it states we turn back to this list for it held the key to the future.
page 67 Referring to the list again, putting out of our minds what others had done we resolutly looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been SELFISH, DISHONEST, SELF-SEEKING OR FRIGHTENED (4 THINGS)
WHERE WERE WE TO BLAME? we LISTED OUR FAULTS. ADMITTED OUR WRONGS AND WERE WILLING TO SET THINGS RIGHT
What I found was if it was wrong for others to treat me a certain way then it is absolutly wrong for me to treat them that way. I was able to say this is wrong by my own definition. I had to start treating all people the way I wanted to be treated.
The hardest two words in our language to say is I'm Wrong. Remember FONZY couldn't do it (for those of us who know him)
I hope I have not confused anyone. But resentments are grave. If you follow the Big Book on this you will be fine in the long run.

[Dallas]

Hey Gunner, thanks for sharing!

Yep. Resentments are fatal.

We learned how to get rid of them -- now, we learn "where do they come from?" and then, we don't have to wait to get one -- to get rid of it!

If we don't get them -- we don't have to get rid of them!

For me, that's what the 4th Step taught me. It showed me that my resentments were the results of my "selfishness, self-centeredness, self-seeking, and being afraid."

If I can get rid of "selfishness, self-centeredness, self-seeking" I won't have any resentments or fear!

Dallas

[gunner48]

Trying to understand where you are going. I think we are talking about several items here.
Definition: SELFISHNESS-- to much concerned with ones own welfare or interest, showing little or no thought or care for others. showing or prompted by self interest.
SELF-CENTERED: occupied or concerned only with one's own affairs; egocentric; selfish
SELF SEEKING; a person only interested or mainly to futher his own interest
I refer back to def. of resentment. Entirely different things. I agree the only way I will ever be rid of Resentments are to Own my own selfish ways but I can be selfish selfcentered and self seeking without being resentful.
My ability to be self-centered, self seeking, and selfish is how I give resentments not how I recieve them. Once again I have to treat you in a way I want to be treated if I want To get OVER Resentments.
RESENTMENT PRAYER ON PAGE 67; FIRST PARA WE ASK GOD----AND GOD SAVE ME FROM BEING ANGRY
PAGE 68 THIRD PARA; WE ASK HIM TO REMOVE
resentments ARE HOW PEOPLE HARM ME
selfishness< self centeriness and self seeking IS HOW I HARM OTHER PEOPLE

[Dallas]

Sorry. I can see now that I wasn't clear enough in what I wrote. I'll go back and change it.

I wrote: "Source of Resentments" instead of "Source of Our Resentments."

When I wrote of 4th Step Inventory I automatically assumed, we would understand "Our list of resentments" and not a list of "Resentments that we caused in others."

I'll fix it.

My resentment is my feeling = "my emotion of anger being re-sent, or anger that is re-felt.".

When I originally became angry -- "angry" anger is the emotion that I was feeling at the moment that I became angry.

Re-sentment is when I'm "re-feeling" the old anger. The old anger is in the past. If I have a re-sentment, it is re-felling the old anger "in the present moment."

My feelings (emotions) are produced by my thoughts.

In my Fourth Step, I ended up discovering what the nature of "my thoughts" were -- that caused me to experience the anger and the resentment.

This, to me, was discovering "the exact nature of my wrongs."

Which to me, means "what was the source of my wrongs (what was the source of my resentments).

By the time I get to my column in the 4th Step to observe "the exact nature of my wrongs" -- I've already made the decision to not look at the other person or what they did (the event or action that they did) that caused me to be angry --

I believe this ties in directly to "the problem centers in the mind."

The problem centers in my thinking (that's what I do with my mind.

After I've become aware of "the problems in my thinking" then I can use Steps 5 through 9, to change my thinking.

If my "thinking changes" (as it does in being restored to sanity, at Step 10)... and I have carefully followed the instructions... my resentments will be gone.

I also believe this ties in with "So we had to get down to causes and conditions" mentioned on page 64.

Dallas

[GeoffS]

Can I introduce 2 other ideas here which I have been told are our code:


PATIENCE

and

TOLERANCE

I often forget these, and often when I'm dealing with the mistakes of newcomers.

[gunner48]

Thanks for everything. Have to sign off for a couple of weeks now. Heading to Montana.
Gunner out